So, I've been watching and noticed something. I had begun playing Dungeons and Dragons in 2018, about 30 some years after I last played it, and found that the game is different. It's more streamlined, the rules are simpler, and as number of things have changed.

Does this sound familiar?

So, what I am seeing is HerClix 1.0 went through a revision, just like D&D. And every time there is a new revision, there are complaints. Just like those who played AD&D didn't like D&D 3rd edition and then nobody liked 4th edition except those who began playing when those were the rules. And now we have D&D 5th edition.

Meanwhile we are at a HeroClix 3.0 point (give or take) and the rules are not the same as 1.0, 1.5, Alpha, or 2.0. Well, HeroClix 1.0 was nothing like the original Mage Knight or HorrorClix.

Rules change to make them better, either in the eyes of the players or in the eyes of the company that makes them. With D&D, nothing has stopped people playing the OD&D or AD&D with the original rules, or DCC (Dungeon Crawl Classic) or 3.5 edition/Pathfinder.

I suggested playing the games using the 2002 rules, the 2014 rules, the 2017 rules, or the 2021 rules (these are all the different rule books I have, maybe there's more) and the only response was not "hey, yeah, then we can all play as we want with official rules" it was "then how do we play [something that had different rules in the previous game]?" Answer: play them by the old rules or don't play them.

My point here and now is, these rules shouldn't chase the veteran players away. They should open up new groups who play under a variant set of rules. These shouldn't kill the game any more than D&D 4th edition killed D&D.

Yes, we should still make our voices heard and yes Wizkids should have had a better roll-out for play testing in the community (ala the unearthed arcana in D&D). But we have no idea what the complete set of 2021 rules are let alone how they work in the game. And nothing is stopping us from using older rule sets or even making a competitive circuit based on those rules separate from Wizkids.

Maybe we need to learn from the D&D community (and that pains me to say, as they are making changes that are causing controversy within their own ranks)?

No, but there are a number of people who are acting like this:

I want the 2017 rules back.
*Cannot get the 2017 rules back*
Bah, HeroClix is dead and nothing will get people to play it now, anyways.”

Meanwhile that fox misses out of the grapes that the monkey climbs up and snatches away, goes home, sees the grapes he has in a bowl on his table and the grapes on sale for delivery by Internet order and says "those are all sour now."

You get the point. there is some sour gapes going on, especially since the new figures can still be played by older rules and people can still play their older pieces with the old rules. Nobody has taken them away.

For the record, the term "sour grapes" is putting down something because the person trying to get that something didn't get what they want. For example, you want an PS5 and got an Xbox, so you claim that the PS5 suck, or even that video games and video gamers suck and are out of your life.

Another example is this:

It sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong here, that Baron Impossible has called HeroClix for him and other to be dead. Many have said this ends HeroClix for them and the game is over.

The game is far from dead. It is no longer that tiny, bigheaded 6 year old that eats dirt and pulls little girls hair to show he likes them, but now is that unrecognizable teen with the odd facial hair and wearing black close and mascara. One day that kid will be a guy in a suit running to catch his car pool so that he can have Thursday off to watch his daughters soccer game. You don't want to let go of that little kid, but things do change. Shouting that the kid is dead to you is kinda extreme.

And is sour grapes.

I like this post a lot. Nice for every point of view.

I specially like the 4 rules: 2002, 2014 (danger room?), 2017 y 2021. Now we just need to put a name to each one.

I had a conversation with a friend yesterday where we agreed that if WizKids officially went the “version” route it would be better for everyone. People who preferred Heroclix 3.0 could stick with that while people who liked 4.0 or preferred to stay modern could move ahead. WizKids could even make extra money by doing light 3.0 support and releasing mini-sets designed for those rules. And even more money by releasing card packs with 3.0 cards converted to 4.0. There’s a clearer delineation for newcomers where each era starts. It builds in more structure for WizKids to not redo the rules every 2-3 years but to start preparing for the next version 4-5 years in advance, leading to more organization, play testing, and feedback. It makes a lot of sense.

Dear wiz kids rules team...Dont mess with the knock back damage! It is one of the game mechanics that made this game spectacular. And please, do not under-estimate the intelligence of new players! -If that is indeed their raison d'etre for removing nice rules off the game-. (ugh!) :-(

This post went to a very strange place.

Your honor, I request that my client's testimony be stricken from the record.

A quick Google search on "sour grapes" will give you more than enough citations. As fun as this little side note was, I have no further interest to go down this rabbit hole. I think we've derailed this thread enough, time to get back on track:



So, does the new Knockback rules nerf part of Onslaught's Attack Special Power...? Or would this be an exception that trumps the rule...? Being able to knock back opponents 9 spaces was sweet. Another errata, leave as is, or a colossal downgrade...?

i'm not overly bothered if my grapes look sour or not, the clix that are coming out now are not compatible with what came out before. the sheer amount of power for the miniscule cost of new clix played under previous rules with previous clix is incredibly imbalanced. and there's also the scale issues of what came before.

it just doesn't work. for me. and rather than continue to hold onto what no longer exists and be continually disappointed and increasingly frustrated as the game continues to "progress" in this displeasing direction, i'm just going to let it go.

i can, and probably will, still play my collection under 2017 rules. i've got a spreadsheet of teams in the hopper that i literally wouldn't ever have the time to play. but right now, i'm feeling extra burned by wk business decisions and my passion to play (even if we had opportunities) is pretty low. down the road i'll prolly dust 'em off and play the old game. but nothing coming out under these new rules looks compatible with what came before and the rate of power leap appears to just be ramping up

Just as Onslaught’s special power specifies he can knock back a character that has Charge, which is different than normal KNOCKBACK, it specifies he can knock hit characters (whether or not they were damaged) 9 squares. No need for an errata. It’s a special power that specifies what the special power does.

I like these changes overall, however, I am curious to see if the "Attack Improvements" when used with ranged attacks won't effectively neutralize the new equalizing effect of the Ranged vs. Close combat rules.

Repeat deleted

As a player from day one who taught my daughter to play (at a young age) and competed together with her against National Champion level players, I have to weigh in:
While she and I still enjoy the game, she confesses that the rules changes of the recent past have alienated her somewhat. Once I inform her that new sweeping changes will take effect with the release of the Wonder Woman set that she has been anticipating, I expect she will be disappointed. Oh well, we had a good run with many fond memories of playing the game together over the past 2 decades.

With the size change, rules changes and already having versions of most of our beloved characters... my purchasing over the past few sets has been limited to a handful of figs bought online and an occasional booster.
Since play in our community has all but vaporized, supporting my local game shop seems futile as well. Hopefully the 'New Players' will somehow keep the game alive and enjoy the 'Participation Prize Award' mentality that the game is evolving into.
"Missed your Breakaway roll? Awww too bad. Roll again until you get it."

I've enjoyed reading the posts of you vet players and getting your informed perspective. It makes me feel better that I'm not alone with my feelings.

Meanwhile I'll continue to play at home, using House Rules that make sense to me, my daughter, and my friends. Enjoy the game that was. Buy figures that i like when they show up in sets. And remember when the game still tried to simulate Comic book Superhero combat.

End of rant.
Aaaaannnnd...scene.

The posts in here calling for uniform positivity because of optics is about the biggest load of BS.

This isn't a paid advertising platform. I'm not getting a check from wizkids to lie (being positive About changes I don't think are good) about their bad (in my opinion) changes to a game they haven't served well for many years.

If the front page for heroclix is full of negativity, perhaps WK should look inwards at their failures in design and play testing. But what certainly shouldn't happen is silencing if opinions not in lockstep with some corporations decisions. Consumers have a right to voice our objections. Wizkids needs our money several orders of magnitude more than we need Heroclix.

I agree with your entire post except the last line... lol. While I know and accept that it's 100% selfish of me, speak for yourself because personally I need Heroclix pretty darn bad. They don't use the term "plastic crack" for nothing. WizKids may view this game as a 9-5, but for me it's 24/7. Plus, there are no other alternatives that even come close to Heroclix if it was gone. Yeah, I need Heroclix way more than WizKids needs my money...

(EDIT: Hey, aren't you the poster who constantly bashes Wizkids about the new rule changes in every thread, and then publicly called out a fellow Realmser for defending the new rules in every thread, over in the HeroClix 2021 Rules 5 – From a Distance thread? I thought the irony there was worth noting )