Q: For anyone here or UDE...can we expect a city championship for after the MTU is realeased...or will we only have 3 CCs this year?

That you do not know. How can they have a comic book game, sold at comic book stores, and print only team you have heard of. You can take five people out off a group at a Comic Book Store and only one might know all of the characters and teams. The other will have an idea and some may know more than others. So how do we pick only those teams and characters everyone knows? My friend does not know who the Legion is, is girlfriend only knows what she seen on the Justice League Unlimited, one person only reads Sandman and the like, while another only reads Lady Death, Hellboy and a few othet titles. So where does the line get drawn? Only those that showed up in a movie, cartoon or TV show? Well that could be a sad limit of characters. And I for one do not want to play the same people over and over, and know what everyone is going to play next because there is nothing to chose from. Then again, Nick Fury had a movie (no matter how good or bad it was) how many people off of the street know who he is? Better yet how many of them want to play a "kids game" with cards? How many people out there know who Judge Dredd is? or that Sin Cty was a comic? Both are movies. How about Witchnblade and WILD CATS? they had TV shows too. If your wanting to target the every day person on the street, most of them (from the US) can not name half the state capitials or for that matter all 50 States, so yes all of these characters are going to be over their head. Yet there is enough "known" characters to draw people in.

YuGiOh has some of the same payment effects. Send a card to the graveyard, change it to attack position, remove two cards from the graveyeard from play. If the effects did not have a cost like that, the card would get out of hand. If I drop the 8 cost Doom and didn't have to KO a character to get that second attack step, it would just be silly. Same with Reign of Terror and recruiting Doom that trun and only playing from my hand. There has to be a check and balance, and something simple like exhaust a character is not to bad. It's not like you have to do the Hokey Pokey and sing Oh Canada in French.

This is not the only game with that rule Vtes does the same, but one step more. If I control a character say named "Billy Bob" everyone single person I am playing is effected. If they play the same character, we both have to flip the card face down, and we end up suffering for it, untill someone chioces to kill of their character and end it. At least in Vs we both can drop Superman on the table and not suffer for it. And no matter how many times you read a comic, more often than not, there is only one of each person.

quoted for truthiness. I've played the game since the beginning. The ONE CARD that turned this game from fun to a job was enemy of my enemy. I loved playing xmen/bhood Force deck, and I love played avengers, I had fun and they were superheroes I recognized and enjoyed making funny stories with. I even started reading x-men comics and avengers because of those decks.

Enemy destroyed it for me. I remember many long discussions with prosak on our mutual hatred of the card. Why play all of your favorite cards in mono team or two team deck, when you can just play the best cards no one has ever heard of instead.

Wow. I saw the screenname and started shivering. That was really good. Thanks.

I miss those days, with you and Longshot. Damn we had fun while it lasted.

Good luck in Sydney.

To all the casual players that think Pro Players only think about the money, that my friends is complete and total nonsense. It is only the tip of the iceberg on why competitive players have been playing this game. I for one play it because the pro level enviroment gets that flare going in my passions. I love the competitive enviroment like no other and the fact that I can win money while doing something I love is by far the best feeling ever. Just like casual players play the game to have fun we have the same addiction but to compete. I am most defiently going to quit unless OP is at least somewhat issued and dealt with within the next few weeks. I will find something else to play competitively, will it be as great as a engine as VS was, most defiently not but my addiction to compete will be met.

I for one know that if this is how UDE is going to deal with the issues then the game will die in the next 3 months. The game can not survive with just the casual side. The reason many people got into this game in the first place was because UDE promised a lot of money throughout the year. Now that there isn't even PRO events to showcase in the next few months after Aussie the game will slowly but surely fall.

VS has made quite a name for itself and the people that I have met have been some of the best and "entertaining" people I have EVER met. I know I will be friends with them for many years to come so I thank UDE for at least giving that to me. It upsets me that this is the way it has to go but UDE is not making money. Maybe they shouldn't release sets that have ony one bomb rare in them and the rest of the set is trash; and have a PC where many of the players can't or won't be able to attend to. And I'm so very happy they released this information after many people have already commited to going or not going to PC Aussie.

I've been saying this for over a year, and every time I am told I am stupid and should stop playing because this is a game you play to win, and for money, and no one wants to play a losing deck. And I always go back to "it's a game, not a job" and more people play this for fun, not to just crush little kids at the local store. I rank toolboxing right up there with Netdecking. I've never had an issue with people wanting to see what the Joker and Doom could do together, or if the JLA and the Avangers teamed up. That's good comic book fun. But seeing ten teams in one deck, it doing well, then showing up to the HL two nights later, and every kid with their hand in Mommy and Daddy's bank account, and every grumpy old man out there have a carbon copy of that deck, because it won for someone else. *shrugs* then again I think part of playing this game, is being able to build a deck and play it.

Well I got tweenty dollars that says it will last more than just 3 more months.

And I would like to see where you are getting the facts to back up "Most people got into this game in the first place was because..." I have yet to hang out with, or meet one person face to face that does this just because of the money and prizes. They did it for the comic books, and they did it because they are gamers, and like to hang out with other gamers and play a game. Hero Clix was a very strong game for awhile, all because of the comics. This game is the same. You go to any High School or Middle school and the kids play Magic, YuGiOh and Vs for fun. When they go to College they play to kill time. If they were playing just for the cash, they could be playing Texas Hold'em once a week and have a better chance.

Not the case at all.... I've read all of your posts within this thread, actually. I thought your wife had set you straight on common courtesy (as in not calling people stupid, dumb or slow), but I suppose backsliding is an acceptable practice around here.

I have no beef with your "points"... most of what you said has been stated and repeated here on the forums for months, if not years now. It is easy to point out the flaws of the game/system and to blame others for Vs. "failure"... but at least do it with a little class. It's not so much what you say as it is how you say it.

As far as what I've done to support this game... well, I have bought at least 2-3 boxes of product from each set released from both my LHS and via Sealed events here in my area. I have played in almost every PCQ here in the Central FL area since Unity Entertainment started TO'ing VS events (back in the Origins days). I have attended every prerelease, with the exception of MHG (had to babysit) and have NEVER attended alone (always with a group of 2-7 players). I have attended every 10k the state of Florida has offered (being a "casual player" with a life, I don't get out of state much) and went to PC Atlanta last year on the hopes of GRINDING in to the main event (sitting short a few PC points is a bummer... but the PCQ scene here is a subject all to itself).

Read that last sentence again.... Went to PC Atlanta as a non-q'd player and tried to grind in. Played 3 of 4 LCQ's held that day and came back the next to play the 10k. I didn't have to travel 300+ miles or spend all those $$$ to support this game... but I did it because I'm a casual player who loves this game.

I have bought every Collectors Set and boxes of the Gallery Packs just to support this game. I have purchased singles from several online vendors and my LHS in the hopes that my patronage would encourage them to continue promoting/supporting/selling the product.

I have an organized group of "casual players" who meet and play at my home between 3 and 5 nights a week. Honestly, how many of the rest of you (pros included) can say you play more than 50 pick-up games a week (outside of OCTGN)?

I have approached our LHS here in Daytona Beach to sponsor HL, but they have yet to get motivated enough to do it. Their logic is sound (outside of their general laziness): Why should we give up table/gaming space for a game while taking away from a game that actually generates profit for the store? That's why I've been advocating a change from the Constructed-based HL of the past to a more FNM-based HL of the future that utilizes Sealed product as a profit generator for the LHS.

I've passed out thousands (yes, thousands.. no exaggeration) of singles/playsets of cards... commons, uncommons, rares... to folks in the hopes of getting them to play and love this game as much as the rest of us do.

I've heard less complaints about the "complexity" of this game from the people I've taught (granted, most of them are extremely intelligent people to begin with) than I have about the "ever changing card pool" and "badly thought through mechanics and gameplay". When I hear one of my "pupils" raving about a combo he has discovered on the way home from the prerelease and how he can't wait to buy a couple of boxes and put the deck together.....well, I know I've done my part.

Not trying to preach here, but you asked. Please, by all means, tell me what I, the "casual player" can do to go above and beyond this for the sake of the game. All I've heard from the majority of the "pros" here is that the sky has fallen and that you're bailing out. Fine by me... go play MTG or Yugi...or WoW (if you can stand such a dumbed down game). If you're here to help, then help. Put something productive out there and not more of this "casual players are dumb... oh wait, don't mind that I just called you dumb, I'm just arrogant" nonsense.

Most defiently agree with you. The it's all those issues pact in one. The
1. game is based on your favorite comic book characters
2. You can build a deck on teams that you have grown to know and love.
3. And hey! You can win a lot of money!

These factors are why the game got so popular. Now its the fact the game is so complicated to play that it's going to fail by itself.

If casual gamers loved this game SO then maybe we wouldn't be in the scenario that we are in now. Now I am not saying that you guys don't love the game, but the fact is that casual players are just like it sounds, casual. Meaning they don't care about PCQ,10k, 50k, PC. Because playing at the kitchen table is enough to make you happy.

We'll people being at the kitchen table hasn't kept this game alive.

Obviously, this is a regional thing because here in SoCal, A LOT of people switched over from Magic to VS because of the money, nothing else. The 2 PC champions we have at the store? They both have not read a comic until this game came out. So, I see where VOLCOM is getting his info (he's from SoCal). It works both ways.

The game is not dead. The sky is not falling. Ask Billy Zonos if you don't believe me. He said it himself today in the Illuminati thread.

My friends and I went to Knoxville. From what I remember there were about 40 people there. I specifically remember Stu being there because he crushed my buddy in constructed with his Sentinels deck (I think it was called Candy Corn at that time). I also remember his wife taping the tourney.

Of the 5 of us who went from my play group only I still play. My friend Jarod who won the sealed that day quit after PC Indy because he had not been paid for his PCQ. My friend Mike who went got 9th in the 10k at Origins that year. He quit after never getting paid. These guys have still not ever been paid even after repeatedly mailing in forms, emails and even some phone calls.

UDE did a lot wrong in the beginning. It may be the growing pains of starting a new business but it does cost players.

In case my earlier post was lost in the mountain of pages this topic has generated, I am an Australian PTO. Specifically, I run Vs events in the Australian Capital - Canberra. It's a relatively small city of 300,000 people, which is 12 times smaller than Sydney and almost four times smaller than the smallest state capital in Australia.

I'm not a retailer of any kind. I work 9 to 5 and kind of fell into TO'ing because I love comics and really liked Vs. I decided to take a leading role in building and maintaining the local OP structure so that the Canberra players as a whole could better enjoy Vs.

We have experienced a bit of a slump over the last 12 months, but we still get a bare minimum of 12 people to every Sneak Preview. We have Hobby League two days a week at a local comic store. We have about 20 local players. I am proud of these numbers, especially considering the comparison with other Australian centres.

Our community is very casually-focused. Most are comic fans (others have been converted to comics through Vs). Some of us do travel to $10Ks, but many have no interest in competitive play beyond Sneaks.

I see it written over and over and over and over on various sites that Vs isn't a casual game and I'm a bit tired of it. I believe that's nothing but destructive and self-perpetuating pessimism. I don't believe that there is any terminal flaws in the game design or that Vs lacks appeal for casual gamers and comic fanboys. My local community is proof of this.

Vs IS a fun game. When approached with a inclusive, community-focused and fun attitude, it thrives. Competition is fine (and fun as well), but if ultra-competitiveness becomes the norm then I can see how the fun factor will rapidly diminish. Big prizemoney may have established VS as a highly competitive tournament game, but that does not mean it doesn't have appeal beyond the hardcore competitive gamer market.

I used to make money out of Sneaks (assuming the shift to Release Celebrations puts and end to that) and I have been lucky to get some freelance work for UDE and a column on Metagame, but the main reward I get from this game is simply playing it.

Vs is a hobby. Hobbies cost money. The game doesn't owe you anything. The incentive to play is that it's fun and a lot of great guys - and a few gals - play it too. Enjoy the game, enjoy the people. OP is important, but it doesn't have to be about a tonne of money. OP can be about the good times.

I realise the new direction for Vs will not cater for all current players. Those leaving will be genuinely missed. But, I'm in for the long haul and I think most of my local players will be too.

I'm sorry "dead" and "dying".

Fixed. It doesn't matter what UDE does to the Hobby League as well. Casaul players don't have time in there lives to go frequently to spend time and money on somethiing that is casual. The games heart is in competitive play. Without it the game is going to lose many peoples interest.

Oh, the good 'ol days. I remember sitting next to Stu in a constructed tournament at the first Vs Origins $10k and watched as he drew his entire deck with Primary Directive! He used little plastic pigs for the +1ATK counters on his Wild Sentinels (do you still have them?), lol.