hg > I kinda disagree on the proxy piece... mainly because rares are what sell packs. You need people buying packs, otherwise UDE doesn't care as much if people are playing. That's just the way of the CCG world; they do have to make a profit. If proxies are allowed in all big tournies, it causes problems. Plus, let's be honest, people will forget what a proxy does, and get confused, etc etc. It's not worth it.

If you want to play peasent, that's a more acceptable approach. Nobody can play the rares, and it introduces people. It also makes decks much more simple.

I understand about the proxies, BUT you can't sell packs to poor teenagers all the time. You may have the money, I know I do, I save for this game on purpose, but others play so many other games, spend it on alot of hobbies they do not have money for one game only. But that is another issue totally, that in which kids today in our society have no attention span.

Proxies allow people to play decks for fun. No one goes overboard and Proxies are in COLOR. Full COLOR COPIES!!! You can read them just fine and get your art. Many times, I tell someone I have proxies, in case they are offended by it, they can't tell from a distance.

Also, I have had my decks stolen before. 4 EOME and worse. I play with proxies and leave my real cards at home unless the particular HL does not allow it. (There is one other in the area of NJ). So unless you are going to replace my enemies, I will continue to play with my proxies, right?

This is not going to turn into, Proxies are for losers thread either. I do it so the young poor kids can play decks that have a curve fixer aka search cards. Buying packs is never a problem, when playing with the proxies for so long, they desire the real cards one day and when they get better, they try and get ahold of them. This proxy thing is a short term fix. You are worried about sharks, proxies fixes that.

I would rather someone comment, good or bad, on the whole post, not just, proxies are bad. You basically discounted my whole thread. Oh well, unlike some people I am not giving up on this game yet or this forum in general.

Also, what drives players away faster is the fact that they cannot afford the cards(rare ridiculously priced ones) and therefore stop playing the game because someone on these threads is always saying, well to build a deck, you start with 4 EOME. You know what? Bulldonkey! If the players ask me, "hey hank, can I play with proxies, because if not, I can't play in your HL tournament?"

I tell them no?! I tell them to get lost and buy some packs kid. Come back when you have real cards? Are you kidding me? You must really drive your players away with that attitude. Let the kids play dammit. You know what happens if I NEVER allow proxies?! No players, no HL and no VS.

Maybe that is what is killing this game. The attitude that you can't play in casual environments with casual rules. Relax, its a game, you are playing for packs and EAs, not $1000. Besides if that kid beats you because he has proxies in his deck, maybe YOU should stop playing. Damn, attitudes around here really suck.

En-Kur why retract a statement and immediately follow up by saying that you still believe that it applies to 90% of gamers???

I just don't get it, "sorry I said that, I retract it (but I still really believe it)"

You believe there's no hope right? So bounce. Leave. I'll buy your Enemys and Mobilizes on your way out...I need them for my mono-Crime Lords deck that I want to play at HL next week.

Speaking of HL...tonight, on the day after Vs. died...we had our biggest turnout!!!

Every player there didn't care about the PC money being cut...not a single one. As a matter of fact I believe the term most often used was "whiney pros lost their money".

Want to know what the next discussion was about? ADDING A DAY TO THE STORE'S VS SCHEDULE. Wednesday nights we all agreed to Draft or play Sealed, Sunday (the day most are available) will be our official HL, we're expecting at least 10-12 for our first Sunday HL, not bad for an HL that started a month ago.

I'm sad the "joes" on here are saying that this is how all "pros" act. En-Kur is just 1 guy who definitely has a self importance issue. I had some nice discussions with Vidi, Dalton, Kim C, and a handful of others in person or on these realms. Hager actually came over and took time out from building his team's deck and posted in the most casual thread on the realms (Modern SPiderfriends) OH THATS RIGHT...it's also one of the biggest, longest running thread on the realms...,but ya know, us casuals won't be able to make the game survive.

I think PC Indy will be Golden Age...and I really hope it is...I'd love to send some of these guys packing with my casual Spider-Friends deck...with 4 Alex Ross SPideys...cause ya know...us casuals don't spend money on this game.

Don't let the door hit your ### on the way out.

I really wish the mods would close this thread...it's all naysayers and negativity now. Start a thread called "Rebirth: Vs. 2007 and Beyond"...that may actually do some good.

CC

I agree with this to a point!

However I feel the problem is that even 10k attendance is low. If you remember 10k denver only had about 50 people in attendance. So When their are 50 people and each pay $30.00 to attend that event that only equals about $1500.00. Ude has been giving out $10,000 dollars in cash prize not to mention swag for everybody & paying for judges room & board & renting space, providing drinks ect ect......

lets take the 10k's at the circuit. typically there are +200 people that show up. At $30.00 a pop that only covers $6,000 dollars.

see the problem?

to save 10k's or pcq's maybe there should be a greater entry fee.

Lets say 100 to 200 versus players were to give $100.00 in advanced for a 10k. That would equal $10,000 dollars.

Lets also throw in the fact that the 10ks could be booked a year in advanced & we could preregesiter our $100.00 too attend. If not enough people preregistered before a certain time then the event would be canceled & we would be refunded or partially refunded.

Doesn't most poker tournaments have a hefty entrance fee?

Ude has to be able to cover there costs!

They simply are not doing so with pcq's & 10ks.

I for one would be glad to send ude $100.00 for an entry fee to attend a 10k a year from now. quite possibly the entry fee would have to be more then $100.00.

How many of you would be willing to do something like this?

The flaw in your argument is that the players have spent $0 prior to attending the OP program.

The type of tournament you are suggesting would work in casual gambling tournaments like house poker games. The inherent cost of travel to a $10K as well as time lost is also a financial factor to the participants.

Increasing the cost to attend will if anything shrink the attendance even more. so u have 15 people paying $100 to play a $10k. This will still be a loss to UDE.

It is very unreasonable for the OP organizers to expect the players to fully fund the payout for a tournamament.

With the advent of dual loyalty & the coming of more and more dual affiliated characters i do believe enemy will become less powerful over time. If i may say enemy is so powerful because it was really needed. However as more powerful searches enter into the guantlet we should see this improve.

enemy does make some almost degenerate decks now but i do believe that will not always be the case.

I am in the belief that competitive teams have always been those that have good search

signal flare
boris
alfred
bat signal
wild ride
enemy
creation of a hearld
attilan
great refuge
brother eye satilite
ahmed
optitron
ring has choosen
boliver trask

versus needs search. the teams who didn't have search typicaly don't compete.

In the past spider friends really was one of the better team when they hit all their drops. Problem was they usually missed drops thus making them teir 2. Now with mobilze and aunt may spider friends should be down right nasty in golden age.

This thread will be bigger than the modern spider-friends thread by the end of the week-end. It's already up to 800!!!

As I am worried as much as others about moving the majority of regional play to the store level due to the lack of HL support in many areas, this should have a good effect at the store level.

Hopefully, many store owners/TOs will recognize this and start or re-start their Hobby League. Already there are many announcements here on Realms announcing their Hobby Leagues and other posters providing help on how to start up HL.

It's a positive start. How fast these stores can ramp up remains to be seen but I hope this does inject some life at the local store level. I plan to try things I've been wanting to do but didn't feel the need for since there were so many PCQs in our area. We'll see.

This may be true!

But the real point is that ude isn't making a profit off pcq's & 10ks!

+ if we are not willing to pay for it why should ude?



another problem aside from payout & low turn out is that we simply had to many tournaments.

If we had only 4 or 5 lets say 30k's a year it could be possible that more people would have shown up. especially if it would have been organized say a year in advance so that people could plan ahead and budget so that an entrance fee of $100.00 wouldn't be so terrible.

See, I think that, to some extent, the reason so many people were saying their area didn't have Hobby League was simply that it couldn't support both PCQs and Hobby Leagues simultaneously for long ... although that was likely compounded by the HL prizes not getting their on time. When faced with the choice of going weekly to a small event and not knowing if prizes would be available, or going occaisionally to a larger event where prizes are guaranteed ... obviously, they'd prefer the PCQ.

I know our area ... HL had dried up and it was basically just our group practicing for the next PCQ/PC/10K/whatever ... When a new set would come out we'd occaisionally be able to inject some fun back as we'd tinker with some decks seeing "what the new teams can do" ... like building a Darkseid 'single set' deck built around substitute that eventually went Golden with only some Cover Fires and Savage Beatdowns [foreign style ;)] as way of additions.

Now that HL is going to be the majority of our OP, we're working on rebuilding it. UDE seems to have taken care of their end of the bargain in promising that the stuff be on time, and in ramping up the prize support ... we're doing our end by prodding the casual guys to start showing up again, building stuff 'just for fun' [i.e. NOT just Modern Age decks waiting for World's Finest and Hellboy to complete in time for Indy] and trying to get the lapsed players to dust off their stuff and try it out.

We may even have to make a 'deal with the devil' ... a lot of them are playing UFS. We might agree to play their game and split the two events biweekly. We'll loan them some people playing UFS if they'll do some work in playing Vs. Not to mention, I'd gladly trade some of my extra Vs. stuff if it cut down investment in a third game for myself.

Yeah and I am saying that doesn't make it right, so...Wow great way to avoid the comment and try to spin it off somewhere else.

Why Yes I do deny him, and I will do it two more times. Deny Deny. Wolverine is just a fan boy favorit. Some claws and a bad attitude.

So with that train of thought, I should hand all kids in the 2nd grade a calculator, and let them learn Math that way, since they are new. Then in five years what happens? They grew so use to sliding scales and people letting them slide by that they are lost. You want to have a learning curve for new people, wo when do they stop being new? what do other people get to counter that? Wait, cant do that, would mean more rules for them to learn. So when the New player has to play with all of the rules, and makes mistakes based off of how they learned to play...what do we tell them so they do not get ticked off and leave?

So what do you tell the guy that just came in from out of town, on his way somewhere else and wanted to get a couple of games in. "Sorry you spent almost $220 on three boxes and then $50 more on a couple of cards, we let everyone here play with counterfeit cards (all a color copy is) and proxies." And you are worried about prices driving people alway? Do you really think that person will want to come back now that they find out it's pointless for them to pay anything for cards? What do you tell that same kid that goes to another game, and gets drummed out because he started tossing color copy cards out on the table somewhere, where the other players don't groove on that? If we can all just make color copies of cards and use them, why would UDE even bother printing and making these cards?

at our local store we allow proxies for everything except tournies.

If you don't have the cards you do not play the deck for the tournament.
Our store also sells over a case of versus every 3 months!

Usually, people can at least borrow the cards they need.

However for practing or for fun play as long as the proxy is clearly marked it is fair game!

Use SOME proxies.

Let just EOME/Mobilize be proxies ... just to avoid issues in the LOCAL area.

The person that drove in?

(a) He's still able to play
(b) How is he personally 'hurt' by the fact that AT THIS STORE, his opponent didn't have to pay as much for those cards?
(c) This is for regular Hobby League ... no one is saying that, for example, events like City Championships would ALSO allow the proxies.
(d) That player would still need those real versions to play a number of other places.

The people with the proxies?

(a) They can only play them where they are allowed
(b) They should understand that going elsewhere, they can't just show up and expect to be allowed to play with them
(c) If they want to go to bigger tournaments, or play those cards in those tournaments ... they'll need to buy the cards.

It's a suggested format for Hobby League, to address a specific areas problems with players quitting because of the lack of those money cards. No one is forcing every place to use it.