Since you did not specify whether the 6 grinder guy placed 2nd in the 5 that he lost, I disagree.

If you are saying that a fun alternative would be:

Win a grinder you are in on Saturday.
2nd place earns 5 "points".
3rd place earns you 3 "points".
15 "points" gets you in on Saturday.

Then I would say that is something for Norm to consider for NEXT YEAR.

In the age of smartphones, I'm finding that running multiple events is much easier than it used to be. I can still remember running 8 battle royals and positioning the 8 timers on my belt so that when I stood JUST SO, each timer "pointed" to the event it was running.

I don't think it needs to be like that. Here's the thing, working it backwards. On Sunday I need 16 people. I have one of them already (George). So I need 15 more.

Saturday's event is set up to be either 4 or 5 rounds (I don't have the info in front of me and gencon.com is firewall-unfriendly to me here). Let's say 4. If I have 120 people in on Saturday, then I would have 15 undefeated players and that would be that.

As it is, I know for a fact that I'll have significantly less than 120 players. Therefore, if I go 4 rounds (or 5, depending on what was posted, I'm not proposing a change here), I know I will have a clear set of top 15 (using records and points). This raises the age-old debate of "how many points for a Bye" and, once again, I will concede that if there is a first round Bye and that person is eliminated due to the Bye I will figure something out. Outside of that person, anyone getting a Bye earned a loss and therefore were in control of what their result was.

This system is intriguing but I wouldn't implement it until/unless I had computer software designed to manage it.

I completely understand.

Have you considered Excel?

You seem to have a # of players in mind that differ from the players expectations.

For most of "us" we would want as many winners in Saturday as possible. If 100 Grinders could be run, then we would want that.

I'm fine with 64 grinders (and my system of letting 32 "losers" in) to get to 100 people. But if *you* only want the winners in...then I say bring as much product as you can. If that's 76 Grinders, then we have 76 winners.

I've said the same thing because my end # hasnt and wont change. I'd like to see a worlds event with 100+ players.

If you *dont* then it really doesnt matter how much product *I* would bring, because "winners only" wont get you to 100 players.

Again, My "lack of willingness" to choose a hard number is clearly false. My hard # is based on getting 100 people into the event. 64 Grinders will do that if you add "32 losers" as well.

You cant do 100 grinders. So you might as well bring product for the 64 you plan to run, plus a few extras for defective boosters, last chance events, and evening events. Thats obviously what you were planning on doing anyways...

If you wanted 128 players, you could have everyone who finished first or second in a grinder make it to Saturday. Or have 60 Grinders and have 120.

You can get there if you want to.

OUCH...............

Man, then you certainly didn't see any of the Battle Royales played at Origins...

Shoot...does that mean I need to get a buddy?

I'm afraid that Craig is the closest thing I have to a friend that can afford to go to GenCon. No offense Craig.

I'm afraid I'm not a very good "system gamer"...

I'm sorry, but I disagree with your interpretation of "fair and equal". In your opinion, that means everyone has the same chance to play in as many events as they want to at any time during the day. That's your version of "fair and equal" and it's also how you read into the post that I made announcing GenCon events.

To players who want to drop out of a grinder because of a bad pull, I'm pretty sure they won't feel that it's "fair and equal" to give them a 1 hour delay. Do we just disregard their opinioin? To you that seems reasonable but to them it won't.

I also remember posts on hcrealms talking about having events at only GenCon and Origins isn't "fair and equal" because some players can't afford to go to the convention because it is too far away from them or costs too much to attend. Should we do something to make sure that all players get an equal chance to play in a World's qualifier. Or do we just disregard their opinioin because it doesn't match your opinion?

In my version of "fair and equal", grinders offer you the opportunity (not a guarantee) to play in a World's event without taking your whole day to play in an event (last year, it was over 6 hours in the World's qualifier events) or having to be there when the hall opens for the day (9AM). That being said, a player who waits until 9 PM on Friday to play in a grinder is taking a chance that there won't be product (unlimited product just doesn't happen in the real world) or players (can't predict how they are going to act either) to fill a grinder. Also by waiting that late to play, you won't have time to play in another grinder if you wanted to either. But ultimately, that decision to wait that late in the day to play in a grinder is the player's decision not WizKids.

I will fully agree however if product runs out by noon each day that WizKids made a mistake in how much product they brought. I'm pretty sure that isn't going to happen but surprises do happen.

I could go on and on with this. Everyone's opinion is going to differ in how many grinders to run per day and how to slot them. No system is going to be "fair and equal" to all players because all players are different. You make the best plans that you can and adjust where you can and learn from the past. Many more grinders are planned at GenCon than were planned at Origins. Same goes for Battle Royales as well. We'll see what happens when we get to GenCon.

With all respect and candor, "want" is pretty irrelevant at this stage in the game.

With plans set for GenCon and about a month to go, this isn't the time to be changing things on folk and I'm not certain what purpose this all serves save for something to consider for next year.

That said even with all the suggestions here, I think I can safely say that this year's actual data will most likely be the deciding factors more than not on many of these questions.

What he said.

Sorry I forgot the smilies...

Then perhaps you should sell tickets to specific timed grinders in the future. Everyone has the same opportunity to sign up for a grinder then. And scheduled throught the day an evening.

What I disagree with, though, is telling people they can play at day or night, and then not having product for evening players.

Gencon is scheduled months early. People were led to believe product was available for evening players. Not just possibly available.

As for dropping out, how is that "fair" to the other 7 players. Your right to "fairness" ends when you infringe on other's rights and affect their ability to fairly win the pool.

Perhaps you had a "bad" pull in your opinion, but you could have won. Instead, another player gets to advance when they wouldnt have won. Everyone else had to play a match. 1 player didnt. Perhaps that player gets to scout others teams and play styles. Something he couldnt do if he had a match.

No, dropping out is something that should be avoided. Perhaps not in your opinion, but certainly in others.

I just realized something. Perhaps squire is the only one really worried about this.

Could that be possible?

I would personally have the Saturday event be a bit more 'intimate' with less than 64 players.

It isnt "changing" anything on folks. I'm trying to prevent issues.

When you tell Gencon attendees you WILL have product for evening grinders...then you better have some. And thats exactly what the description said. Play when YOU want to. Not show up at 10 and hope there is still product.

People schedule events because they expect a Xpm there will be a grinder as WK promised. I didnt set the schedule this way. WK did. My role in "bringing this up now" was to avoid an issue where an evening player was left out with no product.

That saves *you* grief from those players. Sorry for actually trying to help you...