It's nice to get a fresh look at things, being about a year since I last posted this, I can see where I was overzealous about things.

The Flurry change needs to happen. 3 actions (move/attack/attack) within a single turn is too powerful.

I think Charge IS fine the way it is.

Agreed about Impervious, that change would make it too goo,d the 3-4 change that is.

I don't think Auto Regeneration is fine. I don't like feats (ie contingency plan) making bad powers playable. If it isn't playable without a feat, it should be fixed at the source at the PAC. I consider regeneration to be unplayable enough on expensive figures that it warrants a change, although I don't mind at all that you disagree. Just saying, the most powerful forms of healing, nanobots, support, X-men, all require no action. Regeneration is the only form of healing that takes an action from the click being healed, and it is also the only one that isn't guaranteed to heal. I don't think everybody deserves to heal for free ala auto regeneration, but it needs to somehow not give an action token.

concise?

anyways, i agree and disagree on many points too numerous to count. personally i think rules are fine, overall. that many changes would overcomplicate the rules for older fans, and don't help newer ones.

i do have to say, plasticity shouldn't work on phasing. just saying. leap/climb too in my opinion, but can see plasticity working on leap/climbers.

It is more of a joke on the old thread which was 3 times the length XD
Just go over the few that you feel are the best changes or the worst changes for the sake of discussion.

I can see your point about phasing/teleport ignoring plasticity. However, I wanted leapclimb and Hypersonic Speed to be affected, and was simply trying to keep the change as simple as possible so it applied to everything.

While I like the idea of giving close combat characters more power in general, I agree about changing Flurry to a Power Action. That combo (Charge+Flurry) is really just too good. Like HSS, it leaves other bricks in the dust for seemingly not many more points. Changing it would be like when they changed HSS from a Move Action to a Power Action so it wouldn't work with "free move" TAs (one prominent member of HCR was a playtester and didn't realize they worked together until after Northstar came out).

You've convinced me on Regen...

Flurry I still don't see....it's not that charge/flurry isn't crazy tough....it is...but usually they have been putting it on figs that need it...

Let's look at the choices of figs we have that hold this combo:

SI Hercules...not usually seen as broken...tough, but not broken. Biggest problem I see is the silly "carry two objects" power and indomitable.

SI Namor...too cheap by about 25 points....Namore chould have been about 225 points with some more damage reducers...not a bargain basement death machine

SI Elektra...the one click with blades and the combo is nasty as hell...but otherwise reasonable...

AA Superman Prime: as the most expensive single clix fig in the game, he deserves it and needs it

AA Sabbac: Doesn't need it, especially a complicated version of it...Quake woulda worked...but hardly game breaking with his numbers

AA Batman: I'd like to see it on less clix, but he is over 100 points with no damage reducers at all...Just needed less clix of it...

Cr Black Adam: Needs it at his point value. Needed and deserved.

Cr Chase Superman: Needs it...but also needs to be about 50 points more expensive. Kryptonian strength and 5 damage is what really breaks this fig...

So...careful dial design eliminates the problem...but it allows effective high cost monsters to work....

The OPs proposed changes to impervious and invulnerability are the same as I proposed for a feat some time back. I would have no problem with it not being a feat and being inherent. I pay a lot of points for characters because they are supposed to have defenses that allow them to stick around for a long time. Outwit and, to a lesser extent perplex, often lead to these expensive characters making an early departure.

Rather than use the OPs changes regarding breakaway, I have proposed just using additions and subtractions from the die roll (+/-1 for giants, +/-2 for plasticity, and leap climb would give you a +3 to breakaway, but no penalty to anyone trying to break away).
So a character with plasticity trying to breakaway from a giant would have to roll a 3 or better (3+2 (plasticity)-1 (giant)=4, which is successful).

Don't forget Arkillo, one of my personal favorites =).

Still, all the pieces with charge/flurry could STILL use charge and flurry. Not on the same turn, because as it currently stands, figures that get hit by that devastating combo tend to not be able to fight back. Instead of mobile attacks being able to hit for 6-7 damage max, they can now hit for 8-10. You can make arguments that close combat pieces aren't as strong as ranged ones, but at the end of the day, with our effective 10 click maximum system coupled with a maximum of -2 flat damage reduction, a piece hitting for 9 damage on a single that that it was also allowed to move, is bad design. I'm less concerned with "giving close combat pieces the edge" and far more concerned with mobile attacks being able to kill every piece in the game save a handful in a single turn.

I would much rather play a game where I get charged and hit hard, get to retaliate, maybe hit, maybe weaken the enemy that hit me first enough that I'll last enough round. Instead of being charged, hit, hit, so weak I can't fight back effectively or just plain KO"d.


An interesting and more balanced form of what I suggested, but that seems like a lot of chart work. I was going for simple and fast catchall breakaway rules. I'll keep your thoughts in mind though, good stuff.

I'm afraid I disagree with pretty much all your points, although I do think Stealth and adjacency is counter-intuitive.

You completely lost me on the Regen part. You said that most powerful healing requires no action, but everything you list requires an action. Is this a typo? If they make any change to Regen, I would like to see them change the minimum from 0 to 1. Making it essentially a free action makes the pendulum swing too far the other way.

All require no action from the figure being healed. Sorry to be unclear. Meaning, he is free to do stuff after being healed.

Lots of good ideas but way more complex than the status quo. Not necessarily more balancing either.

go out into the woods near where ever you all live. take a navel seal, marine, army ranger, or anyone else trained in evasion techniques. now give him 30 min. alone with camouflage face paints and a guille suit. now have fun looking 4 him allday

even if you where standinh right on top of him you wouldn't know it. unless he wanted you too. indoors or outside makes no different. anyone who thanks other wise just doesn't know any better. sorry this not a opinion but facts. stealth is just fine the way it is.if someone is trained in how not to be seen they won't be seen. unless someone else trained to not be seen gets lucky, because the other poor SOB made a mistake.

I like the thread, and for the most part the tone. So thank you!

my initial thought on B/C/F is that it could work... but I'm not sure it address the main problem directly enough-

High cost figs won't use the power

low cost figures can do too much damage for their points vs. the risk they take.

so the problem seems to be point related. how about-

BLADES/CLAWS/FANGS: After this character has succeeded in a close combat action, roll a d6. A result of 1-4 add +1 to damage value, 5-6 add +2. If the attacker has a higher point value, damage is penetrating.

I would also suggest outwit on a higher point character, be limited to the outwitter only. I will work on the wording.

Cool stuff, see what you can come up with.

I like the charge/flurry combo. This game used to be all about range and flight so now new grounded bricks are being given new power combos to compensate and not sit at the bottom of the tacklebox. That's a way of balancing the game.
Hercules is strong, but he's grounded, subject to terrain, outwit, ranged attacks, incap., lucky supersense/shapechange rolls, BFCs (power dampening field, anyone?) HSS, Mind Control, etc. Chase Supes is strong, but 1 outwit can clip both charge and flurry off his dial and leave him a sitting duck (with heat vision, but still...). There are stratagies out there to counteract these ungodfully powerful bricks in the game already. there's no reason to overhaul the entire rulebook because a few pieces have gotten a little too strong for your liking.

I do agree that regen needs to be fixed, as does barrier/smoke cloud and the Duo ability. the layered defense powers seem like a cool idea, too.