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I like SB Prime, and I also agree with the opinion about Kal-L's death, but then, without Lois, he wasn't all that happy.
Superboy Prime should had a forcing way to redemption searching from the sould of Kal-L trapped by Nekron. Only spending time fighting many many adversaries for make something really good can save Prime. Kinda like the 12 works of Hercules (for redemption when he killed a boy).
I can't figure out whether you're trying to preach armchair child psychology or try to give a pointless explanation about how E2 Superman's death was really due to him being a failure as a pseudo parent. Either way, you have missed my points. Let me frame them for you in a more understandable way.
1) Prior and during COIE, Superboy Prime was established as a hero and was never a "throwaway character." I don't agree with his later characterization by Geoff Johns in "Infinite Crisis."
2) It was also a shame that E2 Superman, the original Kal-L from the Golden Age, died as a result of a beating from SBP. Kal-L deserved a better fate.
I'll go with the child psychology part. And while I do see where you're coming from better, I'm going to disagree. Also, I'm not familiar with SBP's short history of pre-Crisis and establishment as a hero. However, despite my limited knowledge in that area, I still think it's entirely possible for him to go bad as his character arcs. Eventually some people become warped and pushed too far. Characters evolve. Superman stays more static than other Superheroes because that's his thing (just like he was in KC). If we had SBP come out and be that same static moral compass. . . then we'd just have a throwaway 2nd superman. I guess we see it in different lights and that's cool. I didn't mean to sound patronizing if I did.
Also, what would have been a better fate for Kal-L? For me, personally, I thought there was a lot of significance in his death at the hands of SBP. But, hypothetically, if he were going to die a different way during IC what would you have personally liked to see?
Your assertion that a character who appeared in around 4 comics as a normal human being was "established" is silly IMO.
He was a very blank slate, and considering that he was only every used in Crisis (his 1st appearance was a DC Comics presents Crisis tie-in) and wasn't used after until Infinite Crisis defines him clearly as a throw away character.
Maybe calling him "flash in the pan" would put a less severe spin on it, but the earth prime Superboy had even less appearances than Alex Luthor up until Infinite Crisis.
Here's my perspective on the matter - I agree that Superboy Prime had all of one appearance in DC Comics Presents. This happened a couple of months prior to COIE, so I feel that the concept was to have him learn about his powers, lose his world pretty much like Superman lost Krypton, and then learn to be a hero by fighting on the side of good during COIE. His mentors were E1 and E2 Superman (Kal-L, who is argueably the "original superhero.") At the end of COIE, Superboy Prime fought the Anti-Monitor and was ready to sacrifice himself in battle. By the end of the series, I think that he was established as a hero with immense potential. That is why I don't feel that Superboy Prime was meant to be a "throwaway."
That having been said, I agree that as a character he was not used any further after that. I guess that paved the way for Geoff Johns to have him go insane and turn him into the villain that he is today.
"I have deprived your ship of power, and when I swing around, I mean to deprive you of your life. But I wanted you to know who it was who had beaten you."
KHAN NOONIAN SINGH
In memory of Ricardo Gonzalo Pedro Montalbán Merino
They should stick to one Flash-- Jay Garrick. Make the other guys pick different names. Or start wearing trenchcoats so they'd at least be funnier.
Guys in trenchcoats would be a different kind of "Flash".
Quote : Originally Posted by MaxFortune
Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, Green Lantern one-shots, Green Lantern miniseries.
The GL overdose is something that's more recent.
Quote : Originally Posted by MaxFortune
Lobo's not necessarily overused -- I'm just sick of hearing about him all the time from Marvel fans who still can't get enough of Wolverine and think Lobo's "cool".
Lobo at one time was well overused. Now, he's still kicking around, but not as often.
As for your mentions of Supes and Batman, they're way over exposed, which is why they were the first to come to mind.
Also, what would have been a better fate for Kal-L? For me, personally, I thought there was a lot of significance in his death at the hands of SBP. But, hypothetically, if he were going to die a different way during IC what would you have personally liked to see?
He has a heart attack when he finds out that he's really the Lindbergh baby.
I'll go with the child psychology part. And while I do see where you're coming from better, I'm going to disagree.
That's all right. Everyone has their own different perspective on the matter. I can't really give an opinion on whether what Clark (SBP) experienced could have twisted him to the extent that he became what he is today. I don't have a frame of reference for comparison. The truth of the matter is that he was a teenager and wholly unprepared for the trauma that he experienced. I accept as much.
Quote : Originally Posted by Neverfate
Also, what would have been a better fate for Kal-L? For me, personally, I thought there was a lot of significance in his death at the hands of SBP. But, hypothetically, if he were going to die a different way during IC what would you have personally liked to see?
As for Kal-L, I compare his death to the way that Supergirl and Flash died during the original COIE. They fell heroically and gave their lives as a sacrifice. While it is true that Kal-L was trying to stop SBP, basically it felt like it was empty gratuitous violence. A young punk beat an old man to death. That's it. Might as well been Peter Parker beating Aunt May to a pulp. If Kal-L was to go down fighting, you'd hope that there was some deeper significance to it. E2 Superman, of all characters, was never a "throwaway." Of course, that is a personal opinion, not an attempt to convince anyone to see things my way.
"I have deprived your ship of power, and when I swing around, I mean to deprive you of your life. But I wanted you to know who it was who had beaten you."
KHAN NOONIAN SINGH
In memory of Ricardo Gonzalo Pedro Montalbán Merino
As for Kal-L, I compare his death to the way that Supergirl and Flash died during the original COIE. They fell heroically and gave their lives as a sacrifice. While it is true that Kal-L was trying to stop SBP, basically it felt like it was empty gratuitous violence. A young punk beat an old man to death. That's it. Might as well been Peter Parker beating Aunt May to a pulp. If Kal-L was to go down fighting, you'd hope that there was some deeper significance to it. E2 Superman, of all characters, was never a "throwaway." Of course, that is a personal opinion, not an attempt to convince anyone to see things my way.
The original Superman died saving the current one who was incapacitated.
His death was during the climax of the series and he had a very Spock like momemnt when he whispered into Power Girls ears something about things never ending. He even had a nice little happy moment in the sras at the end.
Yes his death was horrible, but I think that was the point.
In real-life those that constantly engage in life or death battles don't have glamorous endings and violence is ugly and awful.
His death really struck me and it took a while for me to see it for what it was.
I call that good writing, but thats just me.
...hmmm yes But seriously He's one of those OVER The top Characters who can damn near be used to qualify for most of them:
Rage:...self Explanatory
Will: He is a STrong Willed SoB who has a strong set of principles he follows
Love: He Cares for his Space Dolphins...ok that's a bad one but still
Compassion: Look at last one....
Avarice: He's a ####in Bounty Hunter and he wanted to be the LAST Czarnian
Fear: Lobo's one of those people that you better not get angry. WHen he's angry people #### themselves
Hope: ....Kind of lame but he went through that whole thing where he was a "priest"...yeah You know I actually got nothing for hope so strike that...
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.-Carl Sagan
...hmmm yes But seriously He's one of those OVER The top Characters who can damn near be used to qualify for most of them:
Rage:...self Explanatory
Will: He is a STrong Willed SoB who has a strong set of principles he follows
Love: He Cares for his Space Dolphins...ok that's a bad one but still
Compassion: Look at last one....
Avarice: He's a ####in Bounty Hunter and he wanted to be the LAST Czarnian
Fear: Lobo's one of those people that you better not get angry. WHen he's angry people #### themselves
Hope: ....Kind of lame but he went through that whole thing where he was a "priest"...yeah You know I actually got nothing for hope so strike that...
He'd also qualify for a Black Lantern ring when you consider that he has died once or twice now.
Superman and Wonder Woman died, came back and were then turned into BL's by Nekron. The same could have happened to Lobo.