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I remember 3 years ago when we had a player at one of the venues that I played at who had dice that wouldn't roll under a 7. After going therough the Organized Play materials I had found a paragraph that said something to the affect that if dice are not provided by the venue, your opponent may request to inspect or roll your dice at any time during the match. I printed off the page and brought it to the venue the following week so that I could use his dice when we played. He acted shocked that I would call him on it, and when the judge came over I handed him the page from Organized Play. The judge acknowledged the suggested rules for tournament play and told him to give up his dice. I think we both hit every roll.
I understand that this may have never been in the player's guide, but I did find it online under the tournament rules years ago.
And I'm the judge running the event. If I explain how things work in this venue, if I choose to enforce that, that is my perogative.
I'll add that they are hand-crafted prototype dice. Another strike against me wanting to play against them.
Again, like I said before, I'd want to see those dice roll a few times before I made a judgement, but the long and short of it is that I'm not going to let a situation of "I think those dice are loaded" interfere with the game when there are easy solutions.
For this situation, maybe I'd say "fine - SWTony is now responsible for everyone's rolls". Now you get to keep your hands on your $120 dice and the dice roll for everyone. Just as fair. Or I'd hand SWTony another pair of dice and say, "for this event, please use these."
This is why I'm not in favor of a "rule" that says you have to share dice. If an opponent calls me over and says "those are cool dice I wanna play with them too" I'm gonna smack him (not literally) and send him back to his game.
This gets thrown out there a lot. OCD is a real thing. I've got it and there are certain things I have to do in order to feel comfortable most of the time. That said, the cases where one is absolutely paralyzed and cannot continue because of something (hygiene related or otherwise) is actually pretty rare. I get past OCD issues all the time to do this - whattayacallit, oh yeah - living in society thing I've heard so many good things about.
If your OCD is such that you cannot tolerate someone touching your dice - but you're perfectly fine attending an event, sitting in chairs that other have sat in earlier that day, playing on maps that others were using earlier that event, I call it into question. Logic dictates that if you can get past issues for some things, then the dice alone should not be the issue that paralyzes you. And if it doesn't paralyze you, then reasonable workarounds mean that OCD ain't the reason in play for refusing.
As the judge, I'll DQ you for anything reasonable, especially when it's something that, if it is an issue, in my mind, falls into the category of cheating. I do not need a rule to list every potential form of cheating. Note the stuff above where I see that there are reasonable explanations, like these dice cost me a lot. But again, if you're not going to take my solutions, then you're DQ'd, no question.
I'd love to see the list at your venue since I know your judge. Does it include things like "don't intimidate other players," "no shortclicking," "no replacing dials on figures?"
If the dice are crooked, I don't need to give you a warning to DQ you. If you're doing anything that is a deliberate act of cheating, I'm not going to warn you that you're a bad boy. I'm going to evict you from the event.
i still disagree about letting people borrow their opponents dice since wizkids documents say the dice are a required for play which is showed in the following paragraph from the 2010 rulebook...
Quote
"WHAT YOU NEED TO PLAY
Any number of players can play a game of HeroClix, but the game plays best with two to four players. This Starter Game includes everything two players need to play: a selection of characters, a rulebook, 1 game map, 1 Powers and Abilities Card, 2 six-sided dice (2d6), 6 object tokens, and 10 two-sided terrain markers (2 special/debris markers, 4 barrier/debris markers, and 4 smoke cloud/debris markers). You might find that a few coins or other small objects to use as action tokens and a length of string or other object to use as a straight edge will help you play the game."
and in this paragraph from the comprehensive tournament rules
Quote
"1.2.9 Required Materials: All players are responsible for bringing the following materials to
Constructed HeroClix events: a HeroClix force legal for that tournament of the appropriate
build total; character cards for members of your force with character cards; up to three
objects legal for that tournament; 2d6; funds sufficient to cover any entry fees or booster
purchases to the tournament; and tokens, coins, or other objects to use as action tokens."
Now if a player is suspected of cheating (loaded dice) its the judges responsibility to roll the dice of the player or have the player roll their dice and prove that they r not loaded.... the opponent has no right to touch the players dice unless the player allows them to which is out of the goodness of their heart....
the opponent has no right to touch the players dice unless the player allows them to which is out of the goodness of their heart....
If the judge says, "Let your opponent use your dice," then you need to comply or be removed from the game.
The judge is ALWAYS the final authority at a tournament, the same way a ref or umpire is at any other organized tournament setting. You may not like their call, but it is their call to make.
But then its also like being a teacher. A school employee has the right to search you based on reasonable suspicion, not probable cause. If one asks to search your bag or locker and you say no, then you are suspiciously hiding something and they have the right to search.
If I ask to inspect/roll your dice, and you deny the request, then you are hiding something and its time for the judge to take action. I am always happy to use someone else's dice or let them use mine. I will use the dice provided, or even offer to trade during a match if mine are running hot, because I know that even though I just rolled 5 consecutive crit hits, that I will also fail to roll over a 5 in 20 consecutive rolls with the same dice. My efforts are better spent worring about other factors of the game.
But then its also like being a teacher. A school employee has the right to search you based on reasonable suspicion, not probable cause. If one asks to search your bag or locker and you say no, then you are suspiciously hiding something and they have the right to search.
That logic would SOOOOO not hold up in a court of law.
Now if a player is suspected of cheating (loaded dice) its the judges responsibility to roll the dice of the player or have the player roll their dice and prove that they r not loaded.... the opponent has no right to touch the players dice unless the player allows them to which is out of the goodness of their heart....
I can imagine a situation where dice could be weighted in such a way that they wouldn't readily appear to be rigged over the course of a few rolls.
I can also imagine a situation where legitimate dice appear to be loaded over the course of a few rolls.
Giving your opponent the right to use your dice seems the most elegant way to solve the problem. The weirdo that wants to use them just because is certainly a corner case. In the time I've been playing, I've never even seen the rule invoked, but it's nice to have.
The closest its come is that someone commented that my custom Orange Lantern dice were suspiciously hot and he wondered whether the symbol was throwing off the weight. I replied that he was more than entitled to use them as well. he didn't take me up on it, but I think even the offer helped dispel the notion that anything was amiss.
There was a Robocop III you know (so don't be racist)
ever see those people at bingo halls that have the stupid 'good luck trolls' ?
that's how i feel about my dice. superstitious. I am actually a very easygoing, accommodating and courteous player (sharing barrier tokens, figures, feats, etc). but MY dice are MY dice.
don't really care if people think im a douche for doing this, it's the way i am. i am generous, but i have limits.
note: i have let other players use some of my other dice, but never the ones i am currently playing with.
ever see those people at bingo halls that have the stupid 'good luck trolls' ?
that's how i feel about my dice. superstitious. I am actually a very easygoing, accommodating and courteous player (sharing barrier tokens, figures, feats, etc). but MY dice are MY dice.
don't really care if people think im a douche for doing this, it's the way i am. i am generous, but i have limits.
note: i have let other players use some of my other dice, but never the ones i am currently playing with.
I'm okay with this. Until it gets to a point where, as the guy running the event, I am put in the situation where fairness/cheating is brought up. At that point I *have* to enforce a policy that ensures that fair dice rolling is taking place. Because at that point in time, a negative post is going to go up as a result of that event. The post is either going to be "the judge of the event let my opponent continue to use his dice that I KNOW were loaded" or the post is going to be "I can't believe the judge forced me to share my dice/roll for my opponent/use a different set of dice"
Between the two, I know which one I can sleep with more easily.
I just want it made clear (as it appears I wasn't) that my whole issue was with the phrase that saying, "They're mine" is not sufficent enough a reason to not lend out your dice. I simply gave a real instance where it actually is. I have no problem with judges compelling players to use house dice or only certain types of dice. I do take umbridge with a judge telling me that I must let someone use my property if I don't want them to for whatever my reason may be. Even in the case of a mind-controlled figure, my opponent never has to touch my property, because I am quite capable of moving the figure into a square that he designates he wants it to go.
In real life, I'm not a douche. I share, I lend, I couldn't care less. That said, I'm not a communist either. What is mine is not yours and I don't care for people dictating to me what I "will do" with my own property.