hahaha agreed. "Outwitted" is not an official game term.

edit:
and neither are all the naughty words we like to use in-game.

I have to again disagree. Remembering Rip Hunter, you have an example of when a power that is already countered, and no longer "on the dial" is able to be preserved. It (and the PC example) are cases when a power is properly countered, (I stand corrected, misterid) but it still restored when conditions are met that make the countering of that power illegal. It is also an example of how "can't be countered" is interpreted in an ongoing manner as well.

And this has apparently already come up?

From the final word "outstanding issues" thread:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...0&postcount=70

...you get a link to this thread:
www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306021

...where it seems to be clear that they regain whatever support/regeneration power that was previously countered. Post #6 asks and #7 answers, and an orange is involved and does not correct it.


In post #27, Harpua endorses the fact that "cannot be countered" includes "cannot be in a state of being countered."

Yeah, well...

..er.. Um.

Damn, I hate being wrong.

I stand corrected, looks like Namor would get his countered Special Power back within 4 and on Water. In my defense, I blame my confusion on Nico. She must have used Perplex....

or outwitted you.

Again bringing in previously rulings when tbe rules have changed.

Completely different language would change previously stated rulings as the dynamics have changed.

Again, there is nothing to state that Namor has Regeneration. Nothing to state that Nico has either power, even if she choose one.

It's ok, now. I'm standing next to Rip Hunter, and I am un-Countered.

Yet, the Players Guide still includes this line:
So I would argue that, although the language has changed in the rulebook, the mechanic still functions as it did when the previous ruling was made.

I would rule that Namor regains his countered power.

:edit: assuming that the conditions have been met as previously stated causing the stated dissension.

And I stopped pushing Rip Hunter / Power Cosmic / Quintessence because it states that their powers can't be countered. Which is a lot different then a White Lantern that needs specific powers.

Countering a power is a continuous effect, yes. But with the Wording in the Rulebook there is nothing telling the White Lantern that either of those characters can use Regeneration or Support.

I understand your position on it, make no mistake about it, and could accept a ruling that the wording difference is sufficient to justify it. But I'm honestly not convinced that it does work that way...especially since there are multiple similar-enough rulings.
I guess we can agree to disagree and be unswayed by the other until it gets an official ruling, because at this point, I feel it needs one.

I think I would agree with this, with the caveat that if she hasn't chosen a power with staff of one yet, then support or regen would still be on the table, so she couldn't have it countered if she hasn't picked.

I would say this because of the line in the white lantern that reads "allows their use". Nico's staff of one doesn't prevent any powers from being chosen until she has chosen a specific power and thus cannot use the others because she already was specific to which power she was granted. So as long as she hasn't taken support or regen off the table by picking something else, then an unchosen staff of one power still allows their use.

Also, I agree with MisterID's assessment of Namor in regards to the White Lantern, for the reasons he discussed.

The previous rulings sited, while not perhaps exact parallels, do seem applicable to the situation sited for Namor.
While it's true that new wording in the rules can lead to a change in a ruling, I don't see anything in the wording change you sited that would cause me to think the ruling would change: if you do, please point it out.

I believe he did. In this post http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=81

If the power isn't there, based on how countered powers are treated (as if they didn't even exist on the dial), then there is nothing there to protect from outwitting.

Nothing sited there defines a change in how countering works, so I don't see the relevance. While the logic chain described is fine, it would follow from it that the ruling on Rip Hunter would change and thus far it has not. Maybe it will, but again nothing sited says it should.