Great podcast. Was very informative. Hopefully this will squash all the doomsday "too much product" naysayers for a while...

I appreciate Justin Ziran and Brian Roll coming onto the ClixCast and talking with HCRealms players. The game needs more of this open dialogue between players and developers.

Onto my thoughts of the podcast:

Why Pop Culture? When did Heroclix become Pop Culture Clix? Why only start exploring that avenue this many years after the game's birth? When the game has almost a decade of being a comic-only game, how can there be any surprise when fans get upset when Pop Culture properties are added to the game?

Let's say these other licenses bring in a few players. Tom goes to his local board game hobby store and sees Star Trek clix. Wow, he buys some, and wants to play someone with them. The store owner tells him about the No Man's Land heroclix event this weekend. It's a constructed event, but Tom can only use Batman pieces for it. Sorry Tom, you can't play your Star Trek pieces at these heroclix events.

You mention three segments of Heroclix: Kids, Video Games, and Comics, and yet only Comics can be played at Modern Age events, only Comics can be played at Infinity Gauntlet or No Man's Land events.

I don't like the idea of Wizkids putting all their eggs in one basket (event OP) and taking focus away from the regular set prize kits. The main problem is that many more stores are eligible and can afford to purchase a regular set prize kit compared to the number of stores that are eligible and can afford to drop $160 per prize kit for Fear Itself. What I am worried will happen is that even fewer stores will take place in the Event OP and players will have zero reason to visit the stores that don't have the Event OP prizes. Instead of having 5 stores in a state that have AMAZING prizes, there should be more focus to get 10, 15, stores in a state to have decent prizes, because that means more prizes to more people overall. It means more players excited overall. It means more customers overall.

Like Jeremiah points out, by shifting the focus to Event OP, Wizkids is telling players to ignore the venues for 3 weeks out of each month, and then attend each monthly Event OP event. Instead of having a larger spread of prizes, bringing in more customers every week, Wizkids has chosen to have a smaller spread of larger prizes, bringing in fewer customers once a month. Yes, players are going to be passionate about Heroclix on those event days, but for the other 29 days that month, they won't be actively working towards it.

I think having all the focus on Event OP is shifting from what grew the game in the first place. Galactus/Starro events were never the lynch pin that grew the game; it was the per set prize kits that had purple ringed pieces, that had special LEs, that had special objects, cardboard pieces, that grew the game, that kept players interested. Suddenly Wizkids is so caught up in the success of the Event OPs that they are willing to throw away the basic foundation that set the game up so many years ago, it blows my mind.

It's not a good idea to have Event OP also replace weekly prizes, because some people like DC, some people like Marvel, but at least if there are Marvel prizes being disbursed, I know in a few months, we'll see DC prizes. If I only play DC pieces, how am I going to feel knowing that all of my possible prizes for 6 months are Marvel? DC got stooged last year with Infinity Gauntlet, now I have to sit back with zero interest in Fear Itself as Wizkids reduces all the Teen Titan LEs down to one figure?

Don't screw us on the Holiday figures. When I say 'screw us', I mean, don't have it like the Supremacy League, the joke that it was, where each participating store got 1 of each LE, because every store is going to have multiple players that want these pieces, especially White Lantern Batman. Participating stores should get 3 of each, 1 going to judge, 2 going to whatever. People want these figures, have been waiting for these figures, have dreamt about them. It'll only be a slap in the face if the figures are given out, only for one person in each store to get one, and the secondary market selling them for $100+. I had to stomach not being able to get a Giant Man because of ridiculous secondary market prices. The only complete collection I can feel proud of myself having is the complete white lantern set. If I can't get white lantern batman in some realistic way, I will be very hurt.

We don't need more Superman/Wonder Woman/Batman Wizkids!

I feel like Wizkids rarely asks the players what new mechanics they'd like to see, what new sets they'd like to see, what new events they'd like to see, how they feel about the reducing of regular prize kits, what do they feel about a special booster set only available through an Event OP. Wizkids does things and hopes players like them, but if Wizkids would just communicate more with the veteran players, perhaps less people would be upset over changes, and perhaps veterans could stop Wizkids from going down unproductive avenues.

Based on the title, I went in expecting a little more on the spolierish set, so that was disappointing that Brian and Justin didn't reveal much specific. Otherwise, good discussion on the OP kits, and I was glad to have the licensing agreement explained.


The rollout for Teen Titans has been pretty good, though. About half the dials are spoiled, probably 2/3rd of the characters have been revealed and there's more than a month until the set drops. It appears to be a pretty tight set theme wise, so the surprises would have to be really surprising. If someone isn't seeing much they would want out of Teen Titans, I don't see what would prompt them to change his mind. Or just get what they'd want from the secondary market.

But the figures spoiled are spoiled much later than the cut-off for retailers to order the product. Unless there is a convention or retailer show before a set's release, most of the set is a complete unknown by the time stores have to submit their order for it. It's bad communication on Wizkids' part.

And although us fans may get leaks, may follow the conventions/shows to see sneak peaks to characters, the stores rarely do, which means they have very little to communicate to their customers about the sets.

How much do we know about Wolverine and the X-men? The more important question is how much do stores know about Wolverine and the X-men right now? I'm sure the deadline to order WatXM is coming up or may have already passed, and the majority of the set is an unknown. Any kind of sub-theme is unknown. If there will even be more than one LE in the prize is unknown. And stores have to sell this product to their customers now?

And what happened to the cool posters? We had ones for Hulk/Galactic Guardians/Chaos Wars/Batman but not one for Amazing Spider-man. I collect Heroclix posters and I was bummed not see a new one.

My biggest beef with how Plasticity is used for many figures is best illustrated in the following examples:

Plasticity is not used to hold in place as much as make it easier to run away. Because, when faced with rolling a 6 or hitting a 16 defense, its better to make the attack. Often, the Plasticity shows up on the end dial, where a successful hit will KO the piece trying to tie you down.

So rather than giving up an action or holding a piece in place for the rest of the team to position, often Plasticity just says, "You might as well attack because you will either damage the figure or knock them out".

A few years ago I wrote out that I think almost every power should have a passive ability and an active ability. I have to be careful not to get my hopes too high - because WK more often than not undershoots my hopes.

Still, I remember the excitement and fun of going through a brand new PAC, seeing how much life was put into older characters. I can't wait for the new stuff.

Full disclosure: I haven't yet listened to the podcast. I've got a short flight coming up, for which I am saving it.

Transition to a tournament-heavy approach is doing to HeroClix what Blizzard's emphasis on competitive play did to the StarCraft franchise: it is forcing casual players to the margins. New players are attracted by the sight of other players using figures in all sorts of gameplay situations, not by (A) prize kits of which they are usually unaware, or (B) boosters that don't let them see what they are about to buy.

I take my hat off to WizKids for expanding into so many new intellectual properties, abandoning the old focus on Mass Market sets to bring in new blood, and selling what is allegedly record volume, but I can't help but cringe at the opportunities sacrificed in the name of 1v1 match-ups.

People show up for OP kits at our venue almost as regularly as they show up for the big arcs. They still speak in reverent tones about LEs from the Spiderman and X-Men sets. Heck, even the Batman LEs are popular. They effectively add figures to existing sets. Whatsmore, they are usually easier to obtain than the prizes associated with an arc, simply because there are more of them to go around.

Big arcs don't bring in new players; they simply help promote a hyper-competitive approach to gameplay that makes it harder to teach new players or sustain interest for those who prefer a casual game. New players want to see something approachable; they aren't ready to leap into a series of 1v1 encounters. Think about who you'd rather approach, as a new player of chess: a small group sitting around a chessboard, playing and chatting casually, or a room full of pairs staring intently at 10 separate boards while the clock ticks down?

I completely agree with this.

I don't think it is becoming Pop Culture Clix. Even with all of the added licenses we are seeing way more DC/Marvel figures being released than these other properties. I don't think that will change. Also, NECA didn't own Heroclix from its birth so they could not affect these kind until the last couple of years when they purchased Wizkids. I still don't understand why people get upset by non-comic book properties being added to the game. They are clearly not taking away from the number of comic book related heroclix releases and can be almost completely ignored by those who aren't interested.

I think these properties have the potential to bring in more than just a few new players if they are chosen carefully. Your example only applies if venues are strictly adhering to Modern Age Wizkids' rules. Venues are free to structure formats however they please. If they have a fair amount of players that buy non-comic book properties then it would be wise of the venues to be more inclusive of those clix. To my knowledge no one is forcing venues to run storyline event tournaments strictly by their suggested formats.

I agree that limiting the LEs for non-storyline events will hurt venues. I think there should always 4 LE items per set (preferably 2-3 figures and 1-2 objects). The storyline events make for a great once a month event and should be kept that way. I disagree however that Wizkids is telling players to ignore their venues for 3 weeks out of the month if they shift their focus completely to storyline events. I think many players like to play for fun and don't always need a prize to play for. Many players at my venue played through the hiatus of heroclix when no prizes were available and I'm sure many other players did as well.

I completely agree with all of this.

I agree that more dialogue between Wizkids and Heroclix players could only help. You mention Wizkids speaking with veteran players. How would you classify such a player? I think every player should have a voice. I personally think we are at a place where new mechanics aren't really needed. We would actually be better served by taking a look at all of the rules, mechanics, etc. and streamlining everything.

Agreed.

I think this could depend on a few things:

1) If Bill and Ted like Bioshock (I think its a video game) and buy the pieces and learn the rules - they don't have to ever play in a tournament. If they hate super-heroes then they won't be playing in tournaments anyway.

2) If the community is welcoming then what figures you use become secondary. WK relies A LOT on the local community to keep their game successful. I have personally been involved with getting players to spend thousands of dollars on this game. It was a player (my brother) that got me to spend the initial $30 on this game. It was the local tournament scene that got me to spend many thousands of dollars on this game. You take that away and you end up with:
Star Wars Minis - spent about $60, played in one tournament. Sold it off.
Warhammer 40k - spent about $150, played in 3 tournaments. The Dark Eldar sit in my closet.
Magic: The Gathering - spent about $80. Played a few games with friends and wife but they lost interest. Traded most of them away.
Mechwarrior Clix - played in a tournament. Bought about $50 worth of stuff. Never played it again. Now trying to sell it off.

What I mean is, we the community have a lot to say about this game. I don't run Modern Age games because I want players to play what they want. While WK needs to make official rules, we the community can officially break them. That is a good thing.

After IG and NML a venue should start to know its players. If I had a store that was barely surviving (and a $160 outlay being stressful means they are barely surviving), I would talk to the players and find out if that is something they want.

I wouldn't blindly buy without any plan. While I get your point, I think good planning and management alleviates any concerns.

That being said, I see your concern about venues becoming the "got to go once a month" kinda places.

A) if that is true then it solves the $160 problem. The stuff will sell.

B) If the venue is a fun place to play then THAT brings out the players on the other 3 weeks of the month.

C) Agreed, prizes make a difference. As I've said many times, going to a tournament is a big deal. With a game like Pokemon or Yugioh or Magic, I can have my deck ready to go at all times. (Are there scenarios and build restrictions in that game?) With Clix, if I have a good venue, I will know what to build 5-7 days in advance. If I don't then it might not be until the day before.

I will then have to conceptualize my team, pull the figures, pull the cards, pack my giant box of crap and then drive to the venue. If the scenario is interesting or the prize is something awesome, I will go through that trouble. If its not... well, I'll wait until next time.

ah, okay, I get your point-of-view better, and could see how adding something "defensive" could encourage a plasticity character to stay and keep tying an opposing character down. I get you. Good point.

It all depends on how its run. If one insists on running games as vanilla as WK says then I can't say you are wrong.

I run the games so that the auto-win team can't win by just showing up. This allows for players who enjoy that style to show up and play. And those types of players laugh, joke, and talk and seeing that makes new players want to join.


Its all in the individual venue - not the game. There is nothing that forces a venue to run Fear Itself, IG or NML like what WK suggested.

If a player fears Fear Itself, suggest the following:

Let's assume a venue has 8 players who show up each week. Each player puts in $2 to play a game. The prizes will be Fear Itself LE's. Play whatever constructed tournament you normally like - ban what you want, include what you want, whatever you envision as your perfect game. At the end, select one booster and open it.

First Place - choose 1 figure
Fellowship - choose 1 figure
Second place - choose 1 figure
Third Place - choose 1 figure
Fourth Place - choose 1 figure

Rinse and repeat every week for 10 weeks.

The venue makes its money back, the players are paying very little money to play, and the prizes are plentiful.

Up the price to $5 and you have 10 players each getting a Fear Itself LE.

It is as simple as that.

Well, while everyone is starting to focus on the implications of the "mass market" and non-superhero comics licenses....

I'm wondering more and more about character selection for the hobby market product.
Will the 5-piece boosters stick around for awhile longer? At the current price?
What about Fast Forces? Successful enough to stick with?
What about the single-piece booster sets tied to the larger sets? Sticking with that?

The storyline driven OP sounds cool for u guys into tournaments. But, will any of the "normal" (non- Mighty and non-Worthy) versions of characters become available in some other way for non-tournament purchase? Other than secondary market, i mean.
Will character selection for hobby market superhero stuff remain as diverse?

"Nothing stops venues from running events differently than the the way WK suggests"

How about we blame Wizkids for coming up with sketchy event recommendations, then?

I don't blame stores at all that follow the recommendations. Unless their players speak up and present a strong notice to the store, the store is going to feel it is fine to do it how Wizkids recommends. Even then, some stores may feel like they have to run it how Wizkids recommends or they might get in trouble.

NML's clans idea was a neat idea but ultimately skewed insanely towards the local players and the clans that have more players in them. Clans made up of people that travel into town are very much put at a disadvantage when their entire team can't make it to each event or people within their team that are local don't show up, of which they have no control over. In the end, attendance and larger clans meant more in NML than actual skill and match results.

Again, if you ran NML how Wizkids suggested. Stores that realized this flaw and ran it differently probably didn't have these issues.

What could Wizkids have done to deter these issues? Perhaps if they would have communicated with the players as the design of the event was being created, players could have added their own thoughts to it.

We know how Fear Itself is going to work. Players will be able to use their resource dial/hammers throughout the entire 6-month event. This means that the players that buy the 2 scenario packs that come with a hammer will have an advantage over the players that don't. It means that the players that make it to each event and get each hammer will have an advantage before the event starts over players who haven't collected every hammer up till then. Is this an issue Wizkids saw coming? Will the event have an answer to that? Or will local judges have to take it upon themselves once more to 'fix' the event for Wizkids?

Read it and see how awesome you think it is afterward. It basically says that WK owns the figures that the retailers have paid hundreds of dollars to get. That is what makes it a violation to sell them outside of the "seat in chairs" thing. Basically they're treating a physical item as virtual intellectual property (this is the type of agreement required for playing online games such as Warcraft so that you can't sell your account, items, or gold). Keep in mind that anyone who refuses to sign the forced "agreement" is banned from buying product.

I don't think the virtual licenses would hold up in court. Applying their wording to the purchase/sale of a physical product is downright Machiavellian.

Grats to the ClixCast guys for calling out WK on the shrinking OP kits (and since when have any of those things cost $5 LOL?)

I've WON most of the NML events at my venue (and have come in 2nd in the others) and after four months am almost out of the running for the LE figure, so I agree with your assessment.