You know, this whole argument got me thinking about economics and the assumption of rational human beings. In finance and investing, the rational would take the biggest gain possible with the acceptable level of risk. This is what caused the housing bubble to collapse 6 years ago. With something so stable as housing, and the gains others were seeing with their investments, most places could not avoid investing in the housing market.

The same is true in heroclix. A rational player will get the biggest benefit with the acceptable level of risk. When choosing attackers and supports, a player evaluates the benefit associated with the cost of that figure. This is why resources are always the first consideration. For the cost of a 40 point tker, you get much more benefit, with almost 0 risk. That is really the problem there, relics in the long run cost more and have less benefits. If there is a problem with resources, it is the inherent lack of risk associated with them.

Holy cow this thread blew up with some wild tangents between when I went to sleep and when I woke from my ancient slumber...

Uh well HEY, I was going to throw out one more thing an just say to talk to your judge a bit and maybe suggest some fun creative formats that will force people out of their competitive mindset. Not saying you should do it EVERY week, but maybe suggest doing something like "300 points, no figures over 50 points" or "400 points, only 1 fig can be non-generic(so the rest of the team can be Hired Henchmen, Asgardian Trolls, etc)" and have a stipulation of no resources.

Maybe stipulate no colossals or team bases to just avoid THAT inevitable outcome once you take their resource away.

Maybe it's just me, but...I haven't personally seen a Resource played (even without bans in effect) since the IG. Most of the folks I play with would rather spend the points on characters they'd like to play.

Bottomline, there's always going to be a contingent of folks who either A) play Math/StatsClix and/or B) play whatever seems to be the most dominant build of the moment.

Personally, I have a bit more respect (whatever that's worth) for the former and very little for the latter. If you want to win a game so badly that you have to net-deck a winning build and then spam it into the ground in the ensuing weeks, you're probably not someone I'd like to hang out with on a consistent basis.

Echoing other sentiments, have the judge actively schedule alternative scenarios. Hell, make up some of your own!

First of all the judge should vary up the formats so you aren't playing with resources every week. Different scenarios give rise to very different teams and building for those scenarios is half the fun.

Magic may be more balanced than Heroclix especially towards the top end, but as a new player to magic with a limited selection of cards (just like the OP is to Heroclix) I get rolled all the time. A good chunk of it is misplays and things I could have done better, but the same thing applies in heroclix.

If I go spend $200 on magic boosters and expect to play my black/red deck and win against those guys who've been playing for years and know the ins and outs and flow of the game (not to mention have rediculous cards) I'm in for a serious rude awakening.

Magic may be more balanced, but the cost to play balanced is wayyyyy higher than heroclix.

Different formats and scenarios make Heroclix fun and amazingly diverse. If you're venue is just playing 300 modern you are missing out.

Wow. We we're throwing that discussion back and forth for hours last night, & I think you summed it up better than we did. For starters the "cost to play" angle never came up and that's something that is pretty relevant when you're talking about a collectible game. Very smooth Lando.

Where are you landing a +2 to stats early in the game? The book has a +2 to stats for 4 Clix total, followed by one of +3. This is the end of its dial, specifically Clix 21-25. You would need a minimum of 4 successful DAMAGING attacks to hit the the first of those Clix and would have the +2 or +3 for a potential 5 damaging attacks total before you rolled off it. The gauntlet allows ONE figure to stay on a +1 or +2 (if they are lucky in their rolls for a +2)and would also take a minimum of four turns with the luck of rolling a 6 each of those turns for the gauntlet. With clearing let's call it 6 turns minimum to get there. What is your team doing during that time? The book is my favorite resource so far, simply for the stat bonus to attack and the mobility. The rest of the dial I barely pay attention to. This resource actually makes teams like Doom Patrol and Arkham Asylum playable. I think the issue may be exactly what others said, talk to your judge about mixing up the tournament themes.

I will never be able to rep you enough for this !
Blam ! take that wizkids !

If people are abusing Splitplip + BoS, then build a team of CW Morgan la Fey, CW Scarlet Witche, and two M10th Iron Man.

That particular Iron Man is brutal for most BoS teams, because he becomes very hard to damage. Morgan perplexes by +2 anyone with Avengers keyword, and of course the Switch is an awesome supporter. This team will take the fire out of your average BoS crap team.

You don't see it because you are some kind of purist. I have never read a comic and couldn't care less if this guy never worked with that guy or they are from 2 different universes. Why should I be penalized for wanting to play the pieces that fit together the best because you don't like it?

I've said it before and I'll say it again here for those of you who are unaware or have forgotten but a few years ago before rotation there was only really 2 teams being played and the difference between them was slight.

If you wanted to have a real shot at winning a big tourney you either played Metron with Nightcralwer or Metron with Kid Zoom to counter Nightcralwer. How much fun is that? Not very fun.

Since they rotated and we have had the game broadened by resources we have yet to have a team emerge that has been the absolute except for H4H and team bases which were fixed by the watchlist.

I am pretty sure that means that these elements have only added to the games playability while taking almost nothing away. Before the winning team wasn't thematic so if it isn't now then that is nothing new however you can play pieces competitively now that you couldn't before due to the ability to add important features to those characters.

Some of you have tried to compare MTG to clix but in a very unfair and slanted way. The op's agro deck is not likely very thematic but he expects clix to be, why because he read some comics? It's like you have been told throughout this thread, if you want to play teams that "make sense" to you than play them for fun but if you want to get serious then play what works best together. Mostly don't punish the game and those that enjoy it because you disagree. If the X-men or Avengers or whoever were meant to be some ultimate force than they probably would have been so in their respective stories but without reading I am willing to bet that there is no ultimate team for exactly this reason.


Special thanks to Krakenbtrippen for trying in a rather eloquent fashion for trying to help them understand. Very well made points but sadly made to folks really not trying to listen.

And so affordable!

Here's my take:

1. No one should be penalized or looked down upon for playing what they'd like to play. I'd say that that sort of reaction should be reserved for those who can't STOP playing the same damn thing or same sort of things.

2. For all the talk that the non-competitive or "themey" folks should try to build in accordance with the meta, or exhortations of "tournaments are for WINS," I'd like to extend this invitation to those of that mind: Play a themed team every once in a while. Give the "other side" a shot.

3. While I'll agree that Resources have made more figures viable, I think that they obliterated "pure" Clix play in the sense that Resources are pretty much a given at a certain level. They aren't just the elephant in the room, they're the elephant in the room that has dysentery and won't stop ####ting all over everything, IMO.

This pretty much ignores the fact that retirement would have dealt with all manner of Thingtron/Nightron/Zoomtron issues. In fact, we saw a brutal mystical team take the crown, if memory serves.

Resources haven't really balanced anything out. Largely, they've gotten rid of figures, or at least the impact of figures. It's a number-Clix game, always has been, but resources make the figures they are attached to irrelevant.

As a long-time player, and avid comic reader, I got to ask this to the OP:

How would you work a theme team around a sealed tournament?

Are you not participating in the current OP events that give out said resources like toys in Cracker Jack boxes? Because within the theme of the event, the resources would fit the theme, and hence you would still retain that comic accuracy.

I prefer to play theme teams, it's fun. Is it going to be the best? Heck, no. But I can still pull a competitive win against meta teams every now and again. I specifically avoid the meta pieces because I play what I like. That's not for everybody, but maybe you should do what's already been suggested: speak to your judge and get some events that fit your style.

I highlighted the key word there because where is this team now? I have never heard of it because it couldn't do what Metrocrawler did. Nor has any team since with a few pre watchlist exceptions.

No clue what you mean by a resource making a character irrelevant, in fact as stated the resources make characters more relevant because they can overcome things that made them less playable before. If a character was already really good than a resource is probably not giving them much and if a character was previously weak than the resource is making them more worthwhile which seems to be totally logical to me, just as I would have far more to gain from the IG than Superman would.

The issue is that when you pump a character up with a truckload of stats, powers, and abilities that aren't really integral or even part of their makeup, it isn't a character anymore, it's a collection of stats/colors/powers that you play.