Competitive players aren't the problem, smacktards are.

Don' be a smacktard.

Well, used Habani in a tournament tonight. Overall, he took 2 clicks of damage, never overheated, and delivered over 40 clicks of damage in the course of a game. It started out Hasbani and a Fenrir BA, against Marcel Thennes, a Kinnol, a GDBA, and a Balac. Marcel was salvaged before the reinforcements arrived. The balac died immediately after they arrived. The Fenrir died quick, but was alive long enough to help Hasbani close combat Marcel. A Behemoth, Aesir, J37, 2 CBA, a Paladin and Hazen's Strikers showed up for reinforcements, while Marcel got a Ghost and a group of infantry for reinforcements (the player was going to put down another Balac, but forgot to deploy it. )

So, to those that say Dereck can't win, nyahhh!! LOL

I only had the one DF Donar readily available as a target, but I will
keep that in mind. ;)

Hasabani still has a 23 defense with hardened armor. This is important because for the most part it looks like non single use AP arty is going the way of the dinosaur.the arrow IVs in CA only the SS tank had AP and it is SU. the Incursion had AAA in it but it only does one damage, and while many of the FP arty does have AP a lot of it has a predictable drift pattern where you can sneeze and move out of the way.
That being said Hasabani is going to be retired as well so ####!!!!!!! Here is hoping for a reissue

I'd say that depends on the motives of the competitive player
involved. If said player is a venue regular, it doesn't matter to
me what they play or how they play it. I take it as a personal
challenge to beat them and, normally, will give them a good run.
Trust me, there are some top-notch, competitive players at my
venue. Thing is, they're also great guys! ;)

It's been my experience that our competitive regulars will take
the time to teach their opponents, especially if that opponent is a
young kid (and we have a few of those), even while they're
playing them. One of them is also our BM and will give players
helpful advice as he supervises the matches. This, in turn, is
good for the game.

No, the competitive players I have a problem with are the prize
hunters who hit all the venues they can get to, playing the same
lame min/max army at each, just so they can hawk the prize on
Ebay. They hardly speak during the matches and sure as hell
don't try to teach! They only care about lining their pockets, at
the expense of others' enjoyment. The game is nothing more
than the means to a financial end, for them. I have no use for
them.

Thankfully, WK seems to have addressed this problem by making
the LE's available in the boosters. :) Some have complained
about this, wondering at the purpose of the tourney scene now
that the LE prizes could also be pulled from boosters. My reply to
this is that truly competitive players should play, first and
foremost, for the thrill of competition and enjoy the fellowship
and camaraderie of the other players. Already have that LE you
just won? Use it for trade fodder or give it to a player who's just
getting into the game and watch his/her eyes light up - that's
what it should be all about! ;)

It saddens me that some of the competitive players on here get
so defensive about this subject (referring to people
as "smacktards", for example). If you're not a prize hunter, and
live up to the example of the competitive players at my venue,
playing strictly for the thrill of competition against other good
players, then you've nothing to be defensive about. Quite the
contrary, you deserve kudos!

There's nothing wrong with playing to win. Hell, I have a very
competitive nature! :p Ultimately, though, it shouldn't be about
winning or losing. It should be about having fun - not playing to
win at all costs.



David

Clarification:

The smacktard line refers to the sort of player you spent much of your post lambasting: the archetypal vile, rude prizehunter who cares nothing for the game. It doesn't refer to 'scrubs', noncompetitive players, or whatever else. Sadly, the thread where the line was used originally has been gassed.

I didn't use the term because I felt defensive, but because it draws an excellent contrast between a well-meaning, polite competitive player (the sort who would play for a potato) and the sort who is after TEH MECHZOR PRIZE!!!11one, lacks social graces, and behaves immaturely. A smacktard, in sum.

There was a lot of whining about competitive players being the problem in Kahnwolf's deceased thread; the distinction I made is pretty much exactly what you laid out in the rest of your post.

Re: Novafire,

Some people enjoy finding min/max combinations. They derive pleasure from the act of optimization. Others simply optimize as a means to the end of being as competitive as possible, because they derive pleasure from that state.

It's all the same game; everyone plays by the same rules. Style of play and meta-rules aren't mandated, thank god, or else the game would be stagnant and uninteresting.

Cheers!
-N

OOPS! My bad! :o Talk about dense - I should have realized that.
Boy, do I feel silly!

Thanks for setting me straight on that - smacktards is, indeed, a
very appropriate term for prize hunters! ;)

I thought this post was about Derik Hasbani (cursed blue ape!). How did it turn into another rant about the people who habitually beat us?

Who is this "us" that is getting habitually beaten?

I used Dereck today and won. I used a bunch of ICE's the other day and won. I used Kava Graves last week and won. Then before that I won with Jiyi Chistu. And before that, with Shone Roshak, Dock Steward, Tracy Crowder, Ken Roos, Mason Dunne, and others. I think I've used just about every Mech out there at least once.

I've also used every combination of cheese out there. But then my philosophy is, you can't beat it if you don't understand it, and the best way to understand it is to play it until you're good with it.

A distinction really should be made.

Can Dereck win a Nationals / Worlds like tourney, filled with great players all playing some sort of cheese? I doubt it.

Can it win at all? Sure. It's a big Mech and unless people bring the correct counters it'll give them a hard time. Just like any number of not quite the best, but still pretty decent pieces in the game.

People really should understand that there are at least two categories of junk units.

There's the real junk, couldn't give them away, what the hell were they thinking, do they even play this game pieces.
And then there's the "junk" which is only junk because better pieces exist or because it's weak against a common tactic.

Most pieces belong in the second category.

I'd still argue with you about that distinction Masta. There are alot of pieces like Hasbani that aren't "automatic winners". People push them aside as unplayable, or at least uncompetitive. That's simply not the case.

In capable, practiced Hands, Dereck is quite able to win a major event, with major opponents. He needs the right kind of setup, and the right support, but it 'can' happen. Does he face the same problems as any big mech, absolutely. Does he need to be protected from charge? Absolutely. Can he use the assault order? Very carefully, if at all.

Now that's not to say that 6 donars won't take him down. Or 6 balacs, or warpog, or anything else. When you build a min/max army, you'll do well against most anything. And a better player, with a min/max army will do even better. So, the two aren't precisely the same.

I'd even agree with you about the three categories. But I see a small top tier, with a huge middle tier, and a small bottom teir. 5% in both top and bottom, with 90% in the middle. Most people see 5% top, 5% middle, and 90% bottom, and they're just wrong.

This thread has gone from talking about Dereck Hasbani's Atlas to talking about the pro's and con's of other units. I'm going to start a thread specifically for that purpose, 'cause this one is supposed to be about Dereck Hasbani, not Chistu or Joel Brane, or any other uniques, LE's, or non-uniques.

Sorry to have kinda ruined your thread Wingman. Sorry that I helped drag it down to a slugfest over what is right vs. what is right now(meta-game).
It's sad to say but probably true if you post another thread about Hasbani, some shortsited person who doesn't know better will respond to it by saying 'Hasbani Sucks' or 'All SS suck' or some such malarky!

If you would like to discuss Hasbani with others that have used him and keep the outside chatter to a minimum look for the Swordsworn Strategy Thread Pt II. Everyone there has insight into what you are looking for. If you want to start on a thread on the uses of all units and play overall then be prepared for an onslaught and good luck.

Shawn

No unit is an automatic winner.

And I'll agree with you on the 5% max, 90% middle, 5% trash distribution. Doesn't change the fact that the max 5% is so much better that the 90% middle might as well not exist if we're talking about seriously must win events (AKA pay a trip to the States tourney).

As for the hard to play but can make it in capable, practiced hands ... let's see how your capable practiced hands look after 2 days of difficult matches, with little sleep and jet lagged.
If you're playing in a Worlds / Nationals tourney, bring the easiest army you can play and still have a good shot at winning.
You don't need to make things harder on you. Unless you think you can outplay everyone while tired. If you do you're a better player than myself, since I make absurd mistakes when tired.

Dereck is a decent enough piece, but better units exist for the position you're trying to fill unless your playing style / plan is quite different from what I would expect from someone using such a big / expensive Mech.
He'll do OK in an environment geared towards smaller units, VTOLS and the like, but a change in army builds (take a couple of Schmitt drops instead of one) and he's in the low 5%.

For less stressful tourneys, play what you like, since nobody's on a must win at all costs quest, and there's little on the line, and you actually like the unit and what the heck, you're just trying to have a fun couple of hours.

poor mechs, they are all in the bottom 5% when up against dual schmitt drop :(... and the TD player has 200 points left over vs your 150 or so...

Anyway, i used an atlas last night and would have won had i not killed my own formation...