Thank all of you for the replies about the twins. I will be informing my BM about the illegal move performed at last weeks tourney. I wont be quiting, but it is very frustrating battling them every week or every 600 pt. tourney we have.

This is the army that is normally used against everyone:


Fortune 112 pts. w/GS-32 21 pts. & G-132 Repair 23 pts. = 155 pts.
Glory 112 pts. w/GS-33 21 pts. & G-132 Repair 23 pts. = 155 pts.
Thug 198 pts. w/L-83 33 pts. & G-18 Improved Targeting 44 pts. = 275 pts.

and a random infantry piece no more then 15 pts. That normally heads to the opponents deployment zone for VC3 points.

Its frustrating to battle this army. I love using Jade Falcon since it is my favorite faction, especially Malvina & Black Rose. But lately I have been using OEJ & Katana Tormark in their respective mechs along with electronic camo on both and the Posidean repair infantry. I beat the Posidean mech with the army, but still cant break threw the twins yet. Thats why I tried the CW army.

I will remember Crags and a few other things I have read in these replies.

Thank you everyone.

Fortune:
112 + 28 + 23 = 163

Glory:
112 + 28 + 23 = 163

Thug:
198 + 48 + 44 = 290

Cost = 616 points.

Looks to me it isn't just how the units work that your opponent is using to cheat. Don't forget that when in their appropriate rides, pilots must pay the higher point cost. That means +7 for each twin and +15 for Vasquez.

I heard some places people play with the house rules that have a choice to pilot without using that extra point cost for their prefer mech. They just don't get their special ability. Maybe this is the case in that situation.

Either I put something in wrong or he cheated. But I'll blame myself.

I know we dont use any house rules like a free card or something. We've done some bonus points when our army is completely pure (no GS), but nothing like that in a long time.

No matter how you break it down, that army is a pain to play. Thanks for the correction Kotch.

no I was wondering the same thing when you mentioned that army.. i was thinking that it's a lot of points...

He used both twins and thug right? well if thug had his correct pilot then he cheated no way around it. But i am guessing that thug did not have his correct pilot in this case.

thats a house rule? i was under the impression that was perfectly legal, and ive been submitting army lists with [no pilot ability] clearly marked on it to the bm, no ones said a thing.. iirc, i even posted that on the metagame thread.

did i just screw up?

Yes Parts. If the pilot is in his preferred mech you MUST pay the higher point cost. You cannot just 'turn off' his special ability.

We play it as a house rule that you dont have to have the pilot ability, it is really niec for a HK purist like me because when playing pure i dont ahve to many choices for pilots and mechs.

9/10 i want the abiltiy, but there is the odd time that i want the mech and the stats that the pilot gives but not the ability.

Dear Daredevil,

If you are a CJF player, then try putting AGILITY, a common card, on a couple of your light mechs-makes them Thug resistant.

To recap what Kotch points out, on turn one Twin A can move, Twin B can move, and Twin A can bonus move. But, on the next turn both twins have tokens and can't double move again. Twin A should be vulnerable.

Now, you have to keep the Twins from resting.

I suggest, if you are a CJF player, Two CJF TTL's. Place them in a CJF infiltrating Amphib carrier. You can move and deploy the TTL's on turn one and cover most of the board. Alternate artillery fire on the twins.

There is no repair if units are in base contact, so some Sylphs are in order; or some other cheap basing units, maybe in a transport for mobility. Yes, you may wind up sacrificing a few infantry, but use it to set up your Death from Above attacks!

Try putting agility on a couple of light mechs to make them Thug resistant, and consider charging a Twin or two yourself....

Ignoring infantry, your opponent has 274 after the Twins. 198 for Thug leaves 76 for pilot and gear. If he's using IT then that leaves 32 points for a pilot, meaning he can fit the generic heavy in or alternatively Aiko but he won't have any points left over for infantry.

So I'm working on the assumption the Thug is either 10/11/23 or 9/12/22. Still nasty but at least you get to keep your pilot modifiers. So you need to set yourself up to consistently mark a 23 D. You also should find it straightforward to get the range advantage on Thug (best range here 22").

To deal with the Twins using CJF isn't going to be easy because they outrange everything. I have had some success with the RISC speed boost, though. That can be fun.

What you need is to be able to withstand that first attack from the Twins, where they will have a 12 attack or, potentially, a 14 against any 'Mechs you field. Were I playing that army, I would not spring the Twins' ability until the Thug was in position to do some harm and cover the Twin that gets exposed. That way you will be hard-pressed to decide what to attack. However a large part of your opponent's game plan will revolve around getting Thug in quickly and you can ruin that in a number of ways. Don't be afraid to sacrifice basers to force your opponent to waste orders trying to free their units up to allow repair attempts.

If you think the enemy army is no fun to play against then your opponent has already beaten you. In fact, this is very fun, since you know pretty much exactly what you have to plan for . Now, if I were facing this opponent I would seriously consider an army built around Merc faction pride-because the Twins aren't much defense wise without evade, but since we are CJF-I could go with the CJF faction pride which allows mechs to move in formation!

Now you can screen a Goshawk or two and a Vixen; or even Malvina with Track bikes or PAL infantry. It might not work, but it would certainly put some pressure on your opponent. Your plan is to move along the edge of the board to get VC3, while using a mission card which can give you VC4. So, you lose VC2, but he would have to engage to win the game, which means exposing himself to things like the Enyo tank drop.

But, what I'd really like to do is play BAW's army with CJF. BAW had a 200+game win streak in Mechwarrior before retiring, not counting his not entirely successful Nationals adventures. His army was based on the concept of two long range artillery with Chikako to cover them from attack. In this case, you could use the excellent CJF Long Toms!

CJF has the Huitzelwhatever tank, with a limited range of course at 12. BUT, with a starting attack of 11., and pulse.

So, I'd plan on a tank drop with the Huitzelwhatever starting from the excellent R10. Support it with a Sniper team drop from an Airborne Cardinal perhaps-the VTOL base is useful for preventing Thug charges.

PC's, must defeat Caverns. Terrain-Bring NO water. You can have the Twins dancing from turn one, they can't afford to take the shot from an artillery piece because it costs them their evade and a repair marker. If he does decide to go for the first shot on the first turn with a Twin, he gets hammered with the tank/infantry drop positioned cleverly to prevent a charge by Thug....

I'm not sure how many points you have left. I would consider using the CJF Vixen in the force with a high attack pilot, and maybe pulse SE? You can use the Sniper drop from your Cardinal to increase your attack value.

So, good hunting, let us know how it turns out!

The CJF PXH dealing 5 damage is also nice. However I'd be tempted to use the RISC Overcharger and get +4 to speed for a nice drastic MDFA that outranges Thug. Even with a 23 defense, MDFA will crack him most times.

But then when I play CJF, I only ever do so to take advantage of their gimmicks!!

(And don't forget to take some of CJF's awesome infantry)

Everyone of you are giving me great replies on how to beat the twins & thug. I talked to the player who fields that army just to confirm what he had in the mechs, and he did not have any gear in thug. So he was 28 points under 600 before any infantry were added. He had IT laying on the side, because he couldnt add it unless he dropped on of the repair gears.

I did ask wizkids about the free action move for a twin even though it was shut down. I got the reply today and this is what I wrote to southpaw.

Dear BattleMaster,

I recently played against the twins, Fortune and Glory in a
tourney. During the game we had a problem and our BM could not find
an clear answer to our problem. Thats why I'm asking you.

Fortune was shut down and in base contact with my CW Marauder. Glory
was not touching anyone. At the start of his turn my opponent vented
Fortune who restarted causing both tokens to be removed. Glory then
did an order. Then he had Fortune use the free action to break away
from me.

I argued that he could not give Fortune any type of order since it
was shut down. He countered that since it was a free action he could
move, per the pilots card special ability. Our BM checked online and the rule book. He told both of us that it is a grey area in the rules with no clear ruling on this, he decided to allow the free action, but was not happy about it saying it was abuse by the twins player.

I've looked in the rule book and on page 22 it states any mech after
restarting/tokens removed has to wait till hi s next turn before
moving. But the way the FAQ reads, since there was no tokens on the
mech it could have a free move action. The player who owns both of
the twins also says the pilots card overrules the rule book.

We argued this last week when it happen and again at this weeks
tourney. We have also asked the question on mwrealms and the replies
that have shown up have gone toward the mech not being allowed to
move. But if you could give us an official ruling on this it would be very helpful.

This is what Southpaw replied back:

Greetings,

No, in the situation that you have provided, Fortune being shutdown,
even though she had a free order she could not be given that order due
to a mech restarting can be given orders on it's next turn, not the
same turn it restarts. A pilot ability can override the rulebook, but it
must specifically state it as such. There are other pilot abilities
that allow a mech to receive two or more orders per turn, but they must
follow the vent/restart rule too.

Effectively the Twins only receive 3 orders for the cost of 2 now. The
abilities hinge on the fact the Twins must have no order tokens on
them. If Twin 1 is given an order, it receives an order token, if Twin
2 has no order tokens on it, then it may be given 2 orders this turn.
When Twin 2 uses its pilot ability and looks back at Twin 1, Twin 1 has
an order token from it's first order and can not receive a second order
this turn. Vent orders neither give nor take away an order token, but
restarting does take away all order tokens. However restarting
prevents a mech from being given additional orders on that turn. So the best
the Twins get is 3/2 orders per turn.

Hope that helps!

Michael Miller
southpaw13
MW Rules Arbitrator

So in the end I was right in saying it couldnt be done, and so were all of you who also said the same thing. Thank all of you who replied and this note stops anyone from trying it again.

Please do not post private emails. Its been a problem in the past.