You know, I thought I had a lot to say on this subject, but I really don't.

Look guys, I know there are other great games out there. I've looked into nearly everyone of them on this list, and i pesonally love VOID and 40k. But in the end, this is a MK site and people come here to talk about MK. I don't go prasing MK on the VOID forums and I don't go prasing VOID on the MK forums (outside of the Another Realms ofcourse). If you have compliants against WK or MK, please air them out, but leave other systems out of this.

Other systems are great, but the pros/cons of them have nothing to do with MK or WK at all. WK runs their company how they see fit. It works for them. They have been sucessful. There is no reason for them to change the way they do things. If they did change them, things could end up worse then they currently are.

In the end, I love MK. I love everything about it. I love the world and I love the players I get to meet and play with. Yes, there are some anoying things about the game/company, but I suppor them and have more fun then not, so I stay with them (as well as all the other games I enjoy playing).

In the end, if you have a problem with MK, then error it. But this is a MK board ment for MK discussion. If you want to debate the merits of MK vs another system, go right ahead but please move it ot the miniatures forum in Another realms (it's overdue for a good conversation anyway).

Just my two cents as always...

Barronmore

True Barronmore, a lot of discussion in this thread is way off topic and should be moved to another realm.

One page if that is off topic and it was brought about by a series of companies that can admit mistakes and corrects them. As Dave has stated "we don't make mistakes" that has been polciy from very early on. there has also bene some other very good points brought up that have yet to be addressed.

don't kid yourself barrel ... GW hasn't fixed a thing...and the game Warmachine is in its' infancy as I understand it...and has yet to make mistakes...even we goggled Wizkids at first as being a shiney new coin in the gaming industry... Although I did give warmachine a try two weeks ago I wasn't impressed with warmachine beyond looking cool... take no offense but that is My opinion...

Gunmix - PP has made mistakes, and corrected them. The most notable example was firing into melee (with certain units it was almost impossible to hit your own, so there was no real risk).

Gw has fixed things (and sometimes gone back later and broken them again, but that's another mistake). Compare WFB from 1st, 2nd or 3rd ed to the current. There have been a lot of changes (not all for the good), but for all the systems named, there is one common thread:

They are willing to change things and/or admit that they messed up

Look, everyone makes mistakes - but the difference is that a lot of the WK attitude toward them tends to be either "Gee, we didn't think that was a problem, but we'll change it to placate you;" or "That's not a mistake. We really intend for X/Y/Z to be a dominant combo/army contruction/whatever." Unless of course, you are critquing how an event is run, in which case it's a "smashing success" regardless of how the actual participants felt.

Those aren't good attitude to have. That kind of mindset precludes the ability to receive constructive criticsm, and creates an atmosphere where sycophancy reigns.

gunmix - out of curiosity, what was your main beef with Warmachine? (Discuss via PM so we can avoid some additional thread hijacking)

There has been a ton of fixes that have taken place with GW rules ( I am not talking about company practices). There is also a ton of explaination given for the reasoning behind the the changes and the process taken to come to that end. On top of that there is very little that is created for the game that does not get an full explanation of the design process.

Beyond some people's popular belief I could care less if someone plays a game from Privateer Press. I will say that the game in question is not as much in its infancy as some may believe.

Unlike some members of the Realms I do not attempt to go around pulling people into other games. While I am mention a game it is either to show how another company does things or to bring a game to one's attention that one may like. So in other words I am not Bshugg.


SO with all of that said

WK playtesting still is sub par along with some of the design aspects. they have gottne some what better on the public relations and communciations front but that is still an issue. As one can tell from the Canadian Nationals they still lack the ability or dedication to back up organized play on such a scale.


Dave nailed with his posts and he should know.