Here is another thing which people have not discussed, but can be extremely disturbing...

Mask of Mysteries... the ability to teleport a MDF or Titan to your front door... or even scary the Apoc Drac, no thank you.

Akuda

Oh and just how effective are those BoL engines going to be when Omens comes out and Firestorm. 2 pushing to all figs with a token in your starting area.

The person who said Oracular Codex is not broken is wrong. One player near me knows how to abuse the relic. And he can be annoying since he can hit those difficult rolls. Often with a swarm. Standard Solinavi Shade swarm. In conquest this will be horrible. He will have way too many Critical hits. With some Hunter's Luck he will be well off. Critical hits every second attack. Everyone can hit the Apocalypse Dragon and Damage him. Annoying. And with all of those abilities to steal man. Oracular Codex will be used way too much.

Method: not everyone's Primary language is English, and not Everyone lives in a country where English is the Same. Also, for the most part, the people on this site are HUMAN, and therefore prone to making mistakes. Perhaps we should take a step back from blasting people for a few typos, especially when you found a whole 3 out of everything he posted, and you didn't bother to correct the mistakes of anyone else. He wasn't even burning you.

Also, you only looked at Olan's posts, and ignored everyone else's. Also, you chose 2 conquest posts that were started only slightly after 2.0 was released, and before people fully understood what relics held what abuses.

Have some respect for other realmers and yourself and follow a modified version of your own advice, although perhaps in a better order.

Think.
Wait.
Speak.

One thing that really jumped out at me when I was reading through the conquest rules is that ranged combat formations and close combat formations (or gang up rather) are treated so differently.

For ranged combat formations, each member (other than the primary attacker of course) adds a +1 to the attack dice roll and a +1 to the damage delivered. This circumvents the Ro3 as I read it, as neither the attack value nor the ranged damage value are being modified.

For gang-up, its entirely different though. Each member in a gang-up formation adds +1 to the primary attackers attack value and +1 to the primary attackers damage value.

There is no capturing in conquest. This in itself is no real surprise. There was no capturing in Conquest prior to this rules set either.

However, combine the bonus of ranged combat formations and the fact that there is no capturing and there is almost (outside of surge and items) advantage to play :sword: types.
With some ranged figs having 14" ranges, you would need about 13" of movement to get to them or you will be facing 6 ranged damage, and that's assuming that the primary only has a 2 ranged damage. Throw in peirce and non-titan, non-MDF figures have lost at least half their dial. Imagine someone like Tythania or Rava with a +4 attack and +4 ranged damage. That is a very scary thought to me. In 2 rounds that could be 16 clicks of damage. I don't care what the target is, it will be dead or practically so after that kind of damage. With that kind of attack I don't even care if I have to use Precision and receive a -2 attack, I'm still netting a +2, and that's not even taking into cosideration what items I may have equipped.

I'm just worried that conquest will turn into a game of "shooting gallery".

Too bad this good advice will fall on deaf ears. And im not referring to Method, because this is advice all should follow.

But on a side note, Jay that was some of the funniest stuff Ive ever read.
:)
-Farchyld

Where the- I don't follow you in the least bit... The attack is being added to, which is a modifier. Just because it doesnt say modifier in the text doesnt mean it isnt. Thus it is subject to the RoT.

P.S. I would have to agree with Bobby... great stuff, why did you ever stop posting... haha

The Ro3 only applies to modifiers that are applied to one of the seven stats showing on a figures base: speed value, combat value, combat bonus, defense value, damage value, range, and ranged damage value. Anything else being modified is NOT subject to the Ro3. Neither damage dealt nor the attack roll falls into one of the seven categories. That's not to say they are not dependant on the seven stats though. Critical hit damage is an example of damage dealt being modified, but not the damage value. Thus a figure with 3 damage and Thunderblow could potentially deal 12 clicks of damage assuming that in the process of rolling Thunderblow, you get 6 critical hits. It would work out 3+3(+1for each successful hit after the first capped at 3 by Ro3)+6 (critical hit damage)=12 damage dealt.

Anyone could argue what I said about ranged combat formations in conquest and be correct. Nowhere does it say in the conquest rules that the formation adds to the combat value or the ranged combat damage. Instead it says it adds to the attack roll and damage delivered. This statement also trumps the rulebook as it is in direct conflict and when this happens it says earlier in the conquest rules, that the wht is written in the conquest rules should be used if there is a conflict. I know (hope) that this was just an oversight and what was meant was that rc formations add +1 to the attack value and +1 to the ranged damage value. But until it is corrected, we should play it as it reads.

A few random points in no particular order:

DBlizzard:Not in so many words, but note that the "standard game is 2000 points and the rules do specify that for 1200 to 2000 points the "battlefield size" is 3'x6'. The beta rules also specify that:
Now, as it happens, 3' is the same as 36". If the deployment areas are "at least" 4" deep, that's at least 8" out of that 36", which means that there is at most 28" remaining between the "far edges" (from the players) of the deployment areas. That is, you cannot set up along the long sides of a 3'x6' board. Therefore you must set up along the short sides. QED. It's simple arithmetic. Unfortunately, I have tried this back before it was specified that setup was to be along the long sides. It stinks. It takes forever to get your forces into combat unless both armies consist of a small number of uniques and MDFs/Titans.

DBlizzard:I would agree with that conclusion for multiple reasons, but the proposed rules unfortunately mandate setting up along the short side. (At least in the 2000 point "standard" format.)

DBlizzard:I do understand that some people are going to want to play with small numbers of fatties, but IMHO, that seriously detracts from the reasons that I would want to play Conquest -- i.e., so I could use all those hordes of figures that I have accumulated. What's the value of buying cases or tons of boosters just to toss the resulting figures into the trash? Conversely, from the marketing perspective, how does WK intend to keep people buying cases/boosters if people perceive the resulting hordes of figures as essentially trash? Conquest is the obvious answer to that marketing problem. It would be stupid to discourage the use of armies consisting of large numbers of figures from Conquest. Among the many ways I can see of discouraging use of huge hordes is forcing the armies to start almost 6' away from each other so that commencement of hostilities takes multiple turns. A slow game with a long setup time is a lot less fun for most people than a faster game that gets down to engagement of forces quicker.

DBlizzard:litedragon:On the contrary, Amazon Mancatchers were great figures in MK1 Conquest. I found the quickness swarns to be devastating. I have used as many as 22 Centaur Outriders in a 2000 point Conquest army. Quckness figures move for free and didn't have to be in base contact to make a big target for Flame Lightning. With the attack and damage bonuses from formation attacks, Mancatchers or Outriders could do serious damage to fatties. My son once took down an Arcane Drac with a swarm of Mancatchers, much to the utter amazement of his opponent. Of course, this was before the Rule of 3, which is another of those clever rules that make junk out of swarms and formations. (See preceding paragraph.) IMHO, Mancatchers and Outriders were among the figures that benefitted most from the old MK1 Conquest rules which made some of the figures that were not so good in Unlimited turn out to be extremely useful in large numbers. (See preceding paragraph again.)

IMHO, nerfing entire factions (e.g., Imperial Legion) is a large part of what caused the problems of MK1 in the first place. Figures like Corpheus immediately made formations go overnight from "somewhat uncommon" to "completely unplayable". I obviously cannot speak for anyone but myself, but it looked to me like it was a HUGE mistake to do that as a lot of people seemed to lose interest right about then. I won't say that I think Corpheus was the only huge mistake, but I think that Corphy was at least symptomatic. I think that WeeDawg's suggestion about when demoralized figures are to be removed from the game would go a long way toward making the proposed Conquest ruleset more palatable to players who lean toward the Atlantean faction. I find it impossible to believe that it could be good business to ignore the significant number of players who have developed faction preferences and even loyalties.

Oh, lest I forget, It looks to me like these rules fail to address the fact that many of the people they might otherwise attempt to lure BACK to MK still have huge hordes of MK1 figures and are not likely to be lured back in with their collections of nerfed figures with nerfed SAs. Without addressing those nerfed SAs from MK1, I don't see these rules luring many of the former players back.

In fact, appears to me that this simple addendum to the standard MK2 (MK 2.34? Certainly well past MK 2.0!) ruleset not only fails to address the problems of integrating MK1 and MK2 figures, but also fails to address the obvious problems (like the arithmetic problems of fitting 38" into 3') left over from MK1 Conquest as well as the problems resulting specifically from objectives or relics from MK2.

I suppose I could ramble on for an even longer time, but I guess I should quit here.

DragonVenom

There needs to be capturing (I hadn't noticed that one). Otherwise Call Familiar gets way too annoying.

I'll have to go with WK on this. If players had to use actions to get rid of the demoralized spead bumps. it would slow down the game a lot, which will be taking long enough.

Some abilities just don't work on a mass battlefield. The commander is too busy leading the units of troops to pep talk the one soldier, just like the theives, rogues and assasins ain't going to sneak up on a formation of troops.


Though I suppose a happy medium would be "Demoralized figures do not block opponents line of sight. Any opposing figure[s] may move or make a ranged attack through a demoralized figure without penalty. If this happens, Eliminate the demoralized figure."

Ooooh....I know this one. In Conquest, you are much more likely to be able to find a spot on the board where your "3" that's sitting on the Oracular Codex is useful. Roll the dice, switch them and use the presumbably better roll where you need a good roll. Indeed, I would make sure I attack areas where I need exactly what I rolled, whenever possible, in order to maximise my rolls.

I'm not quite going to outright call this broken (not until testing it myself). It is, on the other hand, extremely powerful, even for it's point cost.

i haven't read the posts but scanning thru it, i find there seems to be a lot of comments...

i like how they limit the number of relics in an army (2 per 400)...

just my 2 cents...

He's correct. The Conquest rules state the ranged combat formation adds to the attack die roll. The rule of 3 would only apply if it added to the attack value (i.e. the number of the dial).

I wonder if this was intentional. One thing to consider, ranged combat formations are restricted to a +4/+4 (of course, you can get an additional +3 over this with modifiers such as items).

However, gang up isn't so restricted. If the Ro3 didn't apply to them, you could get something like a +10/+10 when surrounding a Titan with sword attack figures.

There are other things I'd use rather than Amazon Mancatchers, though. Of course, I was known for my Shade swarms as harrasers in Conquest (occasionally as high as 20 of them).

"Why thank you"...now if only I could get in contact with my
warlord so he can submit my opinion to WK