I guess my last post was only my .015 cents.

Losing out on the $8000 that HaJo would of won had he simply lost the match, and him along with Aaron Weil going done in history at the event, for terrible reasons is really punishment enough for him. Not to mention the terrible pubilicity he will recieve here at the Realms, and many other TCG Fan Sites. I do not think any Suspension or Banning is needed, he has gone through enough, and I am sure has learnt his lesson.

gambit unfortunately we do know what happened, and it was not a mistake he cheated on purpose. in game 1 there was no way he could win the game due to psimon being in play and karl having complete control over the game. however he did not scoop and head to next game instead he said karl cheated and had an extra card in hand even though he did not. in game 2 he cheated plain and simple and when he got caught he knew it he didnt try to appeal it cause he knew he got caught instead he was laughing at the matter which is completely disrespectuful to the game, the players, the judges, and the rest of ude. the man cheated plain and simple no mistake what so ever and hopefull he gets suspended or banned.


magnetoxx plz dont randomly accuse jason dawson for something without saying anything that happend he is a very good player and a good person so dont lash out for no reason becuase u r mad at him/dont like him.

I do not know what really happened, but from what I understand of the rules, I would have to guess that A-Rod's account sounds a little more realistic to warrant the penalty it got.

The metagame account is that Hans switched the cards at the time Golden Archer recruit effect resolved. It sounds like this is when it was caught as well.

I don't want to second guess the judges that were there, but if Hans was putting a card in his resource row before letting the recruit (and chain) resolve, and as UDE is always telling us judges, both players are responsible for making sure the chain is resolving properly, therefore Horn should not have let Hans put his card into the resource row until the recruit effect resolves off the chain. Therefore if that was the case, both players should get a warning, whether this was the case, I do not know. Similar to NTZ, where you can't hold a player to what he's called without letting it resolve.

However, according to A-Rod's account, the switch was not known, but was found later. Even if it was within the same turn, or the same step, this sounds much more like an example of intentional cheating. Perhaps there were other factors I can only guess at, that push it into the penalty he got, I do not know.

Regardless, this will be an interesting thing to keep my eye on.

EDIT: The placing of the card is done after the recruit effect goes on the chain, according to the CR. So Hans was clearly wrong. Whether it was intentional, is something the judges at the event are capable of making a call on.

Some one earlier said Hans was playing like a jerk. I really dont think this is true at all. His partner may have done some of those things.

Someone also said Hans laughed about the judges call and spun around in his chair. Who knows if this is true and it really doesnt matter. He may have thought the judge was joking or maby he knew that he couldnt do anything about it.

The fact of the matter is Hans made a mistake and had to pay for it. It doesnt make him a bad guy it simply makes him someone who makes a mistake.

Even if this was the case he is still cheating. Whether the resource was switched after the Reign resolved or after Golden Archer's recruit is irrelevant. If he put Answer the Call in his resource row then, later on, picked it up and put Shape down instead, it quite clearly looks like he is cheating. The key part is Answer the Call was already put in the row (according to the metagame report) so it's not like he misunderstood the specifics of reservist.

From the sounds of it ... he made a mistake. However, the mistake seems to be a huge error in judgement. Likely, the pressure of the top 8 led to thinking that he could get away with it, or at the very least, assuming that he would at worse get a game loss [losing a match he lost anyway].

Also, from the report, it said he did appeal to the Head Judge ...

Going to the top 8 and then getting DQ'ed with no prize is punishment enough. A single incident shouldn't be enough for an extended ban from play ... if there was any history of even SPECULATION about him cheating it could be argued. But a single offense should be treated as such ... that's why a DQ is such a 'harsh' penalty in the first place. Cheating should be taken seriously regardless of the situation.

However, bannings and such are further punishments on TOP of cheating and should be decided after a full investigation by UDE. If it was just a mistake in judgement on Hans part ... being in a high pressure situation and doing something he wouldn't normally consider ...

FYI as explained earlier in this thread, you replace the resource before any priority is received, as/just after the reservist character is placed on the chain. Hans originally played it correctly, replacing the resource before his opponent received priority.

hans cheated to try to win the game.... he was dq'ed and he deserves to be banned it's as simple as that. you cheat you get banned it's as simple as that. i don't want to play in a game that wouldn't ban someone caught cheating like hans did.

After looking at the rules, the player may put the card down right after putting the reserve character on the chain, so the card is definitely placed.

Whether that is the sole reason for the penalty given, only those who were there know.


EDIT: I didn't see where someone explained that the card is placed right after, I did see where someone (wrongly) explained that the card is placed when the recruit effect resolves, and after I checked the CR, it's clear.

What does UDE have listed as the mimimum punishment for cheating? That's 'as simple as that'.

Anything GREATER than that punishment is based on a much more than just "He's cheated ... BAN HIM!"

If it's an isolated incident, he should not be banned. If it's part of a reoccuring problem ... than a harsher punishment is in order.

I can't call Hans Hoeh a cheater either, since I wasn't there, but if the facts as presented on this forum are anywhere close to the truth, he purposely took an illegal action. That's cheating. And there doesn't seem to be any way that he could have "accidentally" done it. I assume that there are table judges and spectators watching everyone's movement, and could either see that Hans was literally trying to switch the position of two cards when he couldn't, or the game state was inconsistent with the pseudo-public knowledge of his hand/resource row due to game effects.

I don't suspect that he'll be suspended. This was almost certainly an act of a very momentary lapse of judgment brought about by the high stress situation. People that habitually cheat and want to continue cheating are not going to try anything at the most watched matches and at a time when people paying attention at all to the game state would know that they cheated. The loss of multiple thousands of dollars should be enough punishment.

Dave since you were there at the time could you tell us what really happened with Hans?

I think that no matter what happened he should get a haircut and find himself a new tcg to play because everyone is going to remember this incident if he top8's again...

I wouldn't mind if they ban him, though... He can sit next to Overload in the VS ban list...

Seeing someone cheat doesn't make proof that they cheated, unless a judge sees it. I saw a player cheat and told a judge. MagnetoXX watched the reest of the match with me and saw the same player cheat. This has nothing to do with Amsterdam. This was in Orlando. Now, since I saw him cheat, can I call him a cheater. The answer I got was "NO!" I got chastized for telling about the events. Every time there is a report of cheating, people want to defend the cheater. Don't defend. Save the game and let players know that cheating will not be tolerated. When you see it, let it be known. I understand that some people will lie about it, but the worst that will happen is more players will watch them. If they are not cheating then there is no problem. If they are cheating, then the extra eyes will get them caught and get them out.

Wow...I was always under the impression that Hans was the kind of guy who would never cheat no matter what the circumstance. When I first saw this, I thought that he collapsed under the pressure and switched the cards, but according to Mr. Spears's post I Guess I was wrong =\