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Originally posted by greensleeves If someone can give me a good explanation as to how it has HELPED this game other than turn it into a weenie/rush/best character from every team on each drop/games ending on 5 and below/making it useless to play curve or high drops...
THEN and only then, will I not complain about it ruining VS.
Your good explanation can be found in the Top 8 decklists of the past two $10Ks, and the PC. In three weekends, we have seen an explosion of variety the likes of which this game has never seen. If you can't understand it from looking at the lists, then no one will ever be able to meet your requirements.
Originally posted by stubarnes Your good explanation can be found in the Top 8 decklists of the past two $10Ks, and the PC. In three weekends, we have seen an explosion of variety the likes of which this game has never seen. If you can't understand it from looking at the lists, then no one will ever be able to meet your requirements.
But look at it closer -the decks are really a ton of 1-of characters and a lot of tutors. Every single deck is once again running an Enemy Toolbox. These arn't different decks - they are the same archetype with different base affiliations. They are like one big sideboard, enabled by Enemy of My Enemy. That's not variety. That's the illusion of variety.
Originally posted by FrostyFrog These arn't different decks - they are the same archetype with different base affiliations.
What??? Like I said, if you can't understand then no one will be able to explain it to you.
With all due respect, you are forcing a pre-conceived conclusion on the data. There are many different archetypes there. Sorry, but I am not going to make the list for you.
People with rose-colored glasses see things rosy yes, but people with biased negative blinders see things as doo-doo. No matter what they are looking at.
there are cards like this that have been complained about since the down of CCGs. look at magic. everyone had to run umezawa's jitte in order to win. look at yu gi oh. they had to run yata garasu. people see a card that wins games, or makes it easy to win games and instantly labels it as broken. if you hate enemy of my enemy so much, run fizzles and 1 GK character in all of your decks. but how do you think you will get that one GK character? hmmm??????
Originally posted by FrostyFrog But look at it closer -the decks are really a ton of 1-of characters and a lot of tutors. Every single deck is once again running an Enemy Toolbox. These arn't different decks - they are the same archetype with different base affiliations. They are like one big sideboard, enabled by Enemy of My Enemy. That's not variety. That's the illusion of variety.
I don't quite agree. There are quite a few decks that use it in silver age and in golden age, each with it's own means to an end. If you can't look and see that then perhaps you need to look a little closer. I do side with you on the issue that many decks using it are generally using a splash of affiliations. However if you examine the recent 10k hamilton you will see a large splash of decks that haven't been seen in the meta to well. The secret society has me gitty with excitement as well as the introduction of checkmate as a lethal force. Yes EomE is used, but not in just fully off curve decks.
I completely agree with Toad... Look at the damn decks! Only one deck played less than a playset of EOME... And they are all Toolbox/Rush/Weenie cookie-cutters. Are you serious???? How is this variety? Let's pretend Enemy didn't exist. Then that Top 8 wouldn't exist! It's almost as if those who say EOME opens up variety and creativity mean the exact opposite, in other words...
How is creativity/variety being only limited to playing a deck the same card as its tutor? You can't call it variety when all those decks hinge upon one card.
P.S. Sepharoth... I can't speak for Yugi cause I never played, mostly because it probably is as you say, but you just said about Jitte and your Fizzle/GK reference is completely groundless. Sure, in MTG Jitte had an amazing run, but there were always other decks. B/W control, Gifts, all types of burn decks always exist... so your Jitte comments make no sense. Plus... as a person who's played a curve Gotham Knights deck since the beginning, trust me... Fizzle doesn't shut decks down. At best, it slows them from running you over. Utility Belt, actually is more helpful in the current meta.
Originally posted by greensleeves I completely agree with Toad... Look at the damn decks! Only one deck played less than a playset of EOME... And they are all Toolbox/Rush/Weenie cookie-cutters. Are you serious???? How is this variety? Let's pretend Enemy didn't exist. Then that Top 8 wouldn't exist! It's almost as if those who say EOME opens up variety and creativity mean the exact opposite, in other words...
How is creativity/variety being only limited to playing a deck the same card as its tutor? You can't call it variety when all those decks hinge upon one card.
Because they are affilations that generally don't have their own tutor or their tutor is dependent. It is generally easier in a team up deck to run EomE over a team's stamped plot twist because you don't haft to team up first if you want to search out a character of the other affilation/s in the deck. Like you said, the top 8 wouldn't exsist if EomE didn't exsist. However like I said, only so many of those decks are ones actually featured in the meta. An idea like abusing the crap out of justice league of arkham wouldn't have worked if it weren't for that card, it's pretty much that simple. If you're telling me the idea of doing that wasn't slightly creative then I suppose I need to step back and take another look at what I find creative. People play enemy of my enemy in playsets yes, but they also used to carry full playsets of savage beatdown, were those decks dependent on it?
[i]P.S. Sepharoth...your Fizzle/GK reference is completely groundless. [/b]
uhhh....... I meant that as a joke. you know, if you do not like EoME, then run fizzles and a GK character. get it? you run it to stop EoME, but wait, you need EoME to find that 1 GK character!
This is a sad situation. weren't people like you complaining about things like needing to run a playset of savage beatdowns in every deck? what happened here? I didn't see many beatdowns in the last golden PC. did you? my point is complaining about a card in a metagame that isn't the same as it was 5 seconds ago is pointless. EoME will be replaced by another money rare eventualy and vulltures like you and hypnotoad will nag UDE about it being teh broken and life will go on. I see MILLIONS of possibilities for many teams that get left in the dust, that can add EoME for consistancy. are you a big sinister syndicate fan? upset that they don't have a searcher? Add EoME now for playability! combo with your favorite team!
Originally posted by stubarnes Maybe because they won their way into the Top 8 of a 10K.
Maybe because they are not just anonymous scream-jockeys.
Maybe because we have not heard their opinions twelve times already.
Maybe because it's Canada.
Doesn't mean anything. Or do you suppose that only tournament players are smart enough to have opinions and that the posts here are made by 'lesser' players?
I don't care whehter someon'e 'anynymous' or not (it's internet you fool, how else is it going to be?)
Yeah, bring on Titans and Sentinel. I loved those days. And yet AGAIN... *sigh* (stop putting words in my mouth) I never complained about beatdown, not when there are cards like Mega-Blast that cost literally nothing and are 3 threshholds lower. Beatdown was always overrated.
I didn't say you did. stop putting words in MY mouth. I said people LIKE you. I didn't know your stance on the beatdown issue, I was mearly using an analogy of a past occurance to suppurt my current thesis. ya dig?
No one has yet explained what is so bad about multi-team decks. Variety is good, seeing under-used teams/characters is good, and lack of predictability in the metagame is good. Decks that ran one or two teams at the most were also decks from an era where there were only a few sets out. The game is evolving. Get used to it.