Maybe that was back when he thought Nega Bomb was generic.

I'm with you jj, I can't get it to go off on 4 with any consistency. I always seem to be 1 card short.

stu i find your contributins to the forum to be fun reguardless if i agree/disagree with you, but i do belive frankie is in the area of too good. Ive seen her playd in so many decks that all she is there for is card cycle and how much can be cycled through its nutty.

for instance i played against a checkmate robots deck the other day, frankie was in there because they played alot of 4 drops and could also be used in conjuction with the stun to reduce a cost of an omac, and other abilitys. I belive he drew around 12 extra cards that game.

this is just a basic example of what she can do.

also to the guy who was talking about all the exhausts......if your on evens and its turn 5, you dont care so much about a few exhausts.

Yeah, I'm against free characters in general, and Frankie is utterly ridiculous.

Ban her, and salt the earth.

i like the idea of free 1 drops because otherwise you might not ever play them unless your playing short curve or rush, esspically if they still have a use.

rick jones,jacob lee, and the like are the best examples of free characters that i can think of that are fun but not stupid like valeria and frankie

You figure they get something like 10-25,000 around three times a year just for playing the game. You probably wouldn't get paid that much to do R&D. Not to mention you could test for the game and still have another stable job.

another question to ask instead of why arent these guys working for RnD, is to ask why the guys from RnD dont see these things coming.

i understand they do alot of work, but seems they miss the boat on things.

i could be totaly of basis, does upperdeck have a future future league like im told magic has where a group play with cards from a year in the future tand there whole point is to guess metagame movements and break cards so that they get caught before out the gate.

...and you're going through your deck at triple normal rate, which is easily ridiculously stupid good all by itself in any deck that uses the KO pile as a source of characters.

This game, like all games, has an internal clock. In chess, each side starts with sixteen pieces. In Heroclix, each side gets X actions per turn. And in VS, each player naturally draws two cards per turn. With a two-per-turn "clock", you will draw out your deck by turn 27. Playing Frankie twice per turn from turn 2 means your clock runs out on turn ten. This makes overpowered card combinations, that previously would have been reliant on Boris or Alfred or Poison Ivy or all of them together to get the moving parts together into a machine, not only relatively stable but frankly reliable. Hell, earlier in this thread I showed everybody a Secret Six Victorious deck that runs only two copies of S6V and no Fiddler and still wins on six, and it's entirely because of Frankie making sure you see what you need and drawing you into extra cards via Mxyzptlk and Stranger.

It's painfully easy to build a deck that plays Frankie twice per turn starting from turn 2, and contrary to what people are saying, Ivy isn't the only problem card in this regard; she's simply the best combo option because of her location fetching. Kree can do Frankie cycling with Stargate and Penal Colony (that's not one but two extra freeplays of Frankie every turn with a tutor for extra deck thinning). Villains United can do it from turn 3 with Calculator-3 and Science Spire (ditto, with a Spire cycle replacing the tutor effect). And these are only the reusable options, not touching on one-time uses like Remnant Fleet, Baddest of the Bad or even Insect Swarm. So it's not Ivy that's the issue.

Any team that plays KO pile manipulation tech, like Secret Society or Underworld, gets an additional bonus from Frankie because for them Frankie is just increasing their "second hand" at an exponential rate. For these elements of Frankie abuse, the "do something about Phantom Stranger" argument is revealed as worthless, because these decks aren't nearly so worried about their hand size. Oh, shucks, they discard two cards that they'll just play later from the KO pile if need be to draw two cards? And they get a reusable discard engine element that lets them cycle their hand in addition to filling their KO pile? Who's gonna bother with Funky's Big Rat Code when Frankie is simply better, because she allows you to discriminate between what goes into your KO pile and what doesn't? So it's not Stranger that's the issue either.

And, as always, it comes back to Frankie. Frankie is the problem card. Even were there no Ivy and no Stranger, she'd still be a problem card just of her ability to enable combos at will. She's the target for the banhammer. No ifs, no ands, no buts.

Or you can just bounce those characters first


O.K. everyone, I got the go-ahead with revealing A version of the stupid frankie raye deck. Keep in mind this deck doesn't use Nega-Bomb to win... but other cards that count the number of recruits you made in a turn. Your kill turn is 4, you have a contingency for 5.


Your Move Games presents: why Frankie Raye needs to be banned.

Characters:
1 MHG-218 Haywire ~ Suicidal Lover
4 MHG-060 Nenora ~ Skrull Usurper
4 MHG-007 Frankie Raye <> Nova ~ Optimistic Youth
2 MHG-051 Dr. Minerva ~ Starforce
1 MHG-056 Lieutenant Kona Lor ~ Lunatic Legion
4 DJL-094 Poison Ivy ~ Deadly Rose
1 DCR-158 Deadshot ~ Dead Aim
1 DJL-119 Deadshot ~ Floyd Lawton
4 DCR-141 The Calculator ~ Evil Oracle
1 MHG-049 Colonel Yon-Rogg ~ Commander of the Helion
1 MHG-045 Admiral Galen Kor ~ Lunatic Legion
4 DCR-027 The Phantom Stranger ~ Wandering Hero

Plot Twists:
2 MAV-183 Null Time Zone (system failure/nega-bomb; funeral for a friend does nothing when swinging at your face)
4 MHG-082 Remnant Fleet
3 DJL-140 Attend or Die!
4 DJL-150 Straight to the Grave
3 MHG-203 Intergalactic Summit
4 DCR-147 Baddest of the Bad
4 MXM-194 Enemy of My Enemy
2 MHG-076 Live Kree . . . or Die! (so you can get rid of characters vs kree so you can swing at face (and not worry about bounce effects))

Locations:
2 DJL-195 UN Building ~ Team-Up
1 MHG-182 Soul World
3 MHG-074 Hala

60 Total Cards

It is incredibly easy to recruit 13+ characters on turn 3 with this deck if one desired to do so.

I keep going back between a 2nd minerva and a sorcerer's treasure

I really don't feel like explaining this deck right now... If you want I'll play you with it on OCTGN... my aim is laskyalexr

P.S. attend or die should not be errata'd to say cards put into the pile are to be removed instead from any zone as that would change the intended function of the card. They should ban attend or die, and make a new card to replace it that says when a card is put into the pile from ANY zone it is removed instead and also should have a limit to the number of characters you many recruit in this way.

and yes, I am saying attend or die needs to be banned cause it's gonna cause problems in the future... it's not hard to deck out even with frankie raye banned (evasion 1 drops w/mind gem are an example; mind you not as fast as frankie enables). All you need is free characters and something that keys off the number of characters you recruit in a turn.

Man, you people amaze me.

Do you guys have nothing better to do than to sit around and create decks that get cards banned? Thus, making the game alot less fun to play.

Wow, can't beleive I'm about to use this phrase....

"Don't hate the player...."

You can't fault people for being innovative, especially when they're vying for $40,000.

Edit: If this were the only way to abuse frankie, I'd say wait and see. However it's just the tip of the iceberg, which unfortunately means she needs to at very least be nerfed.

heh...That's the last time I show you a list.

i say ban her, but would the ppl of this thread like to see her banned for silver or ban her in general?

Without these people who sit around all day and show us (and UDE) breaks in the game it would be less fun to play. But, as it is, our community has imaginative and innovative players who not only want to be highly competitive but also have a care for the state of our game.

As the old saying goes, if it is not broken, don't fix it.

Frankie is a break in the game. UDE, please fix the game!

The guys at research and development do see the potential abuse of many cards.

Read Dave Humphery's article on the banning of Dr. Light. He mentions that they consider restricting Dr. Light's activate to either Emerald Enemies characters or characters with a willpower of 1 or more. However, they decide to let Dr. Light work on any 2 drop character to "push the envelope." 18 months later, UDE banned Dr. Light because he push the envelope too far.

I'm sure the same through process was used for Frankie Raye. I sure R&D consider putting "discard a Heralds of Galactus character in order to recruit her for free," and "discard a Heralds of Galactus character with a cost of 4 or greater to draw two cards when she comes into play." However, they probably wanted to "push the envelope" again with her. The result of this will be that she is going to get errata or ban very soon becaue she push the envelope too far.

I not going to defend UDE on why they decided to "push the envelope" with Frankie Raye. I just wanted to show that R&D does see the potential for abuse in many of the cards they design and in some cases lets them slide in order to "push the envelope" for Vs.