/checks the box next to willfully ignorant.

None of that has ever mattered when it came time to fix a card. Cards get fixed because they need fixing. If your house leaks in the garage, but you don't use the garage do you just let it leak? Do you notice a leak, grab a bucket and never return? Buckets fill up eventually. Leaks get bigger. It's broken, it needs to be fixed, end of story.

Then quit posting. The only way you can "not be addressed personally" is to remove yourself from the discussion and community. By participating you are involving yourself personally and I have every right to address the points you make, the things you say and thus you, personally. I would expect no less in return.

I WOULD act this way in person, because I speak my mind, plainly and honestly be it real life or the internet. I don't mean to offend if I have, I apologize if you have become offended in anyway, but I will not retract anything I said because what I said was the truth. I'll be the first person to admit I'm wrong if it comes to that (in any situation, not making a point about this case, just myself) and you can find many instances of it here on the Realms if you look. But fact is fact and my points still stand.

Address one of them. See if you can. Here, try this one...

Parademon's errata. If you're right and this doesn't matter... Why was Parademon given errata? He didn't even need TECH to be beaten. He didn't win even when taking a tournament utterly by surprise. But, he was broken and therefore fixed. Explain to me how that point of contention doesn't put weight behind my statements that make your's lack credibility.

-Mike
EDIT:
Yeah, I hope they just stop printing new cards soon too. I mean why bother. They don't need to. It's not as if doing the right thing because it's the right thing matters. Whatever. Like, why bother trying to get DC back? Why bother trying to get new licenses? Whatever, they don't need to.

Wow...this one's easy.

Parademon is from Crisis...a set that is STILL LEGAL in a RELEVANT format.

He got hit with the errata stick in June of 2006, I think there was a RELEVANT TOURNEY coming...oh yeah PCLA.

CC

Actually I wasn't offended...i thought it was funny that you would get SO UPSET defending a combo that may not even exist.

My point is that I never called you a loser for defending your point...I just disagreed with you. You on the other hand decided to escalate...which is fine. That was my way of trying to show you that you were out of line all things considered. I do believe that you would argue this same way if we were all sitting at HL, but I seriously doubt you would come at me in the other fashion face to face.

CC

I'm still not hearing a single reason not to errata this. Issuing the erratum takes almost no effort and has no negative side effects that anybody's brought up yet-- so why not do it?

"Just to be safe" is a VERY good reason to do something.

That's one way to look at it.

I prefer to try and beat it, and then, it it can't be beat...change it.

I guess I'm spoiled because I know I'd never face it ever.

CC

Uh... Ghostbusters debuted at PCSF, didn't it? And didn't make day 2? Uhh... Wow, I was kinda being facetious with the "oh, he's just willfully ignorant" jabs, but now you are seriously just ignoring things. So, basically, it DEBUTED at a RELEVANT TOURNEY and DID NOTHING, but they STILL fixed it. Why? Because it was broken.

Uh? Defending a combo? Huh? You're the defender, I'm attacking it. It's a broken interaction that needs to be fixed and you're saying #### it.

You'd punch somebody for running a deck at HL? Really? That's a total loser move. I'm not escalating. I'm being honest. Anybody who would physically assault some one over a game has issues. I don't know if you even said you'd do that in this thread, I just vaguely seemed to remember you saying that in the past and thus my original post didn't call "CaptainCuba" a loser, it called anyone who would punch somebody over running a deck a loser. If you're owning up to be a loser, that's on you, not me.

-Mike

(Regarding Fiddler on the Roof) "Once the novelty of a cool, new deck like this wears off, we feel confident in saying that the experience of playing with this deck and against it is something our players don’t want to see in our organized play events."
- Dave Humphreys, 9/12/06
http://www.metagame.com/vs.aspx?tabid=46&ArticleId=6969

(Regarding Antarctic Research Base) "The Base has been a concern for us for a very long time. While the Fate Artifacts were ultimately what put this deck over the top, we had built many decks previously that were scary with this card. What Antarctic Research Base lets you do is dangerous. This isn’t to say that there aren’t honest applications of the card... Again, this does not exclude the possibility that other cards, such as the Fate Artifacts, are too powerful as well, but in our opinion, that remains to be seen."
- Dave Humphreys, 6/12/06
http://www.metagame.com/vs.aspx?tabid=46&ArticleId=6026

I think these two quotes help identify and sum up a healthy attitude towards building a constructive environment with which to play, which is something that Vs. will need to maintain if it is to recover and subsequently thrive. The goal should be not only to maintain the player base but to draw in new players.

New players are less likely to participate in a game where there is a readily available "always-wins" (relatively speaking) deck that would easily trump any concoction they could pull together. And while this deck may only be possible in Golden Age, many new players may be more likely to invest in older, cheaper sets, especially considering newer sets may not be available to them.

Again, I think this thread does the unfortunate duty of "jumping the gun" to certain degree, since many details regarding available cards and the "Energize" power have not been fully disclosed. However, its main point is to highlight a combo that would do serious harm to both casual and potential high-level tournament play, both of which needs to be portrayed as fair and balanced in order to draw in new players.

I said #####-slapped actually...and no I wouldn't do it. It's a figure of speech. If I ever were upset enough to actually strike someone, I wouldn't proclaim it and then do it...I'd just do it.

I meant you're defending your opinion, I'm defending mine.

Our current OP will not get hurt by this combo. That's the point I'm trying to make. It's like the Power 9...do they really matter if everyone is playing Block? Or Sealed?

CC

If you're playing casual...are you really going to run this deck?

If you're playing competitive...this deck won't be legal anyway.

Those blurbs were from a time in Vs. history when there was a relevant OP to protect.

The first blurb DIRECTLY addresses competitive OP...it doesn't even mention the "casual format".

CC

There you go then, you made a figure of speech, I said something and never the twain shall meet. No escalation, nobody is a loser, we're agree'd on that. lol

Considering what OP we have left has been a very uninhibited hobby league system where formats change wildly and try new things all the time, this broken interaction is more and more likely to become a problem, even if only King For A Day. Bring your own Two Teams means no generics, means no Meltdown, no Level 12, no Backfire, no Reign of Terror, no Have A Blast, no Omnipotence, no answers. Do you want ANY organized play event to be ruined, with how few we get? I don't. I want what little we have to be protected fiercely and nurtured lovingly.

Leaving a degenerate interaction lying in wait to pop out of the woodwork and kick a newb in the sack just isn't fair or right. We need our new players to spread the good word, not warn off others.

-Mike

Agree to disagree for now, then. I'll wait for more info before making a final decision... I think we both agree that the deck can be destructive to gameplay, but you believe the lack of tournaments means it doesn't need to be addressed. On a larger scale, I hope whoever's left for us at UDE is paying attention to these issues.

I just think we can police ourselves.

And if it getted changed I'll never have the joy of the score being 50-49 in my favor when I swing into them with Southern Belle.

CC

I've come to the conclusion that Cuba is intentionally stirring this up, because there's no way someone with his experience can miss the difference between "good card you need to tech around" and "broken loop that turns the meta into 'play it or play against it'".

Excuse my ignorance...

But can't you just swing into Red Skull?