What I'm saying is that TBS is as official as it gets. It has been that way for quite a while now.

His position since MVL wasn't just UDE R&D... it was basically VS Head Design from DCL on... moreso once Yip left.

Given that, he would not say things without approval from UDE first... as per his NDA and employment provisions.

So while "technically"... he did say "my" and "I"... it was in the capacity of being a UDE employee and therefore represents UDE (unless he posted some disclaimer somewhere).

To give you more proof, in my discussions with UDE about the licensing of the Vs engine by a 3rd party, it was made clear to me that they do encourage the fans to continue supporting and playing Vs (with the caveat of protecting copyrighted material). But I'm not officially UDE either so you can view that as you wish.

Thank you...and for all purposes wasn't R&D 3 members at the end, with TBS being the head? I've seen Zonos active over at .ORG, so he may be supporting the group as well (though Im not sure if he has outright agreed with TBS). So thats 2 of 3 and I don't even know/remember the third. I'm also pretty sure that Bannings/Erratas/etc were decided by the Vs. R&D Team...not by the UDE corporation. The suits probably asked one question in regards to Bans/Erratas..."How will it effect profits if we do/don't change?" If the answer was +EV they probably couldn't care less about a ruling on a card.

So yeah TBS = R & D = UDE.

If you're waiting for CEO Richard McWilliams to issue a Press Release...oh wait...he's never done that.


CC

Long live CC....

While I appreciate those go getters and their polite possition of trying to not leave any man behind...you are seriously great ambassadors to our "dead" game....you efforts are recognized by those who do "care"....

Pi is a dick...CC is right...he isn't the guy I want to play cards with....he hasn't even seen the site...has no idea what the council is trying to accomplish...and has offered not one idea on how or what he sees as the way the game should progress...plus he doesn't "care"

Sometimes while trying to save a drowning man, the rescuer can be taken down with him....

Continue your noble efforts to save every last man...just don't let your hearts turn cold when it doesn't work!

I've looked at the site, although admittedly, after a bunch of posts here. It isn't quite what I assumed in the beginning. Again, "council" has negative connotations for me, so hearing about some mysterious "VS council" didn't have a good feeling to it. And, for the last time, my "not caring" is about how I don't think everybody should support my ideas, but can have their own, and that the VsSystem.org site should exist and people should be there. I don't care that they exist and want to do things, but didn't quite support them. I don't support the Republican party, but I think it is necessary and should exist. I don't care if people want to support the Republican party. Same thing.

How am I a dick for responding to the question? After people attacked me, I tried not to stoop to their level. I really want to know how I am a dick for not blindly believing that the new site is the greatest thing ever and that everybody who supports VS has to be there or they don't care about the game. I might have been slightly harsh at CC, but only because he attacked me first, and kept on attacking me.

CC, I never saw that TBS had said to "create a council" so I never responded to that. TBS isn't UDE. If, as an official representative of UDE, he said that people should do that, then fine. If he had said that in his actual official response on the UDE site, I might have taken it to be UDE saying we should do that. I think he, as a fan, wanted that to happen. Either way, I still don't like the idea. Even if it was in his official letter saying goodbye, I still don't like the idea. For reasons I have explained, which you may not agree with, and that is fine, I don't like the idea of a council.

Anyway, I am done with this discussion. I don't feel there's anymore that I can gain from talking about this. For the future, though, I don't think that attacking people is the best way to go about getting people to support you. If you disagree, well, keep attacking people. Maybe some masochist will join you.

Pi:

From what you've said in this thread you believe that:

1 - The game is dead
2 - There is nothing that can change that

So, how exactly is the council a bad thing. The worst case scenario is going to be that they accomplish nothing. Can they possibly make a hopeless cause of a dead game worse? From the outlook you've presented, there is no worse area.

Personally, I'm done with Vs. I've only been playing with one other guy for the most part. I got a case, we 2-man sealed the whole thing, had some fun, built a few modern decks out of it, laughed about how busted Exiles are, actually built a passable mill deck by teaming the DCL Society with Runaways, etc. However, I'm pretty much done, unless a big event comes by. Which is basically the same position I was in when Upper Deck was in charge, except with the council it's probably MORE likely for their to be an event held at a Con, sadly enough.

The point of a council "telling people what to do", is that, if (optimistically: when) it comes time for Gen Con, and they hold an event, there are rules that everyone attending the event knows about before hand. Without a council ... odds are there wouldn't be anyone organizing an event at a large convention. Or, put another way, anyone organizing an event at a large convention would also be telling people what the rules are, and thus be doing exactly what the council would be doing.

Ultimately, the council is going to, at best, ensure that Vs. continues going by providing compelling options for people running local areas, providing concensus rules for inter-hobby league play (i.e. larger events), provide new content over time, etc, etc, etc. At worst, they accomplish nothing, and the game stays as you say it is, dead and nothing able to change it.

That doesn't mean you have to get on board ... but it does seem odd that you seem to think they both can't accomplish anything AND they are some sort of menace that is going to force change ... when you apparently don't care about Vs. anymore anyway and wouldn't be effected by said change.

Personally, I'm not going to migrate to he new site, because my passion for the game has dried up. But I'm not going to go out of my way to wish ill upon those that want to keep it going. I'm fine with going down with the Realms ship, as it were ...

EDIT: That's what I get for taking so long to type this out ...

Well this was kinda interesting.

Funny thing is I likely have taken the greatest steps in seizing the remaining vs nopower. I set up a poll for hobby league formats so we could all conspire about the same format decks (evil I know, but deck discussion is what I get fired up on), those without unofficial leagues can now set them up at home or with local no-shop play groups and join in the fun. I'd love to see the results of your house 3 man Marque event.

That being said as the New Unofficial nothead of the nopower I would like to welcome everyone to the waking dream, much like the american banking system you just have to not disbelieve, not look too close, and have faith that the money is realy there and everything will get better forever.

Please join me is seizing the available nopower, if something is not to your liking please ignore it, it won't go away but you won't notice. As the CEO of Scapegoats.com a onlyforourselvesprofit organization I will say I am totally to blame for everything negative that has transpired so far,

thank you for your time and attention, now I must leave before IT comes looking for the source of all the assailing viruses.

For clarities sake Steve and Carlos are in no way connected to my assertions of nopower it is entirely my own delusion at work (pun not intended but kinda cool anyway).

Pi you still haven't presented an option you find viable that will help the game continue...

Who made ude god?

I actually think that your republican comparison was compelling...

Sucks walter isn't joining...I always thought of you as one of the best guys from this site....someone who would be great to have around...good luck to you in whatever you decide to do in the future

FYI - After reading the council threads here and on .org/TCG, Steve and I had a few more in-depth discussions on the council idea. We've come up with something we'll share with you all on Monday. It'll get posted on realms, but not as part of this thread, and not necessarily by one of us.

So Walter, in Walterspeak of course, says the exact same ####ing thing that Pi said, and gets a "good luck" and pat on the back instead of the crucifiction Pi had received?

Double standards much?

I said that what they are doing can only be good, I just don't want to be personally involved, in part because I probably couldn't contribute much, as my focus is elsewhere and I don't have the energy. I was partially recapping the things that Pi said (in hopes of confirming that is what he was getting at, and how that doesn't seem to fit with other things he has sad).

He however talks about not liking the idea of the council as if it's some dark force that will do something bad. I was questioning how something bad could happen to a game that, in his own opinion, is dead and unble to be saved. When there is literrally nothing left to lose, and it can't get any worse ... how exactly can you fear that it will get worse? [Note: this is different than saying "Well, at least it can't get any worse" which unleashes the sitcom god of anvilicious irony.]

Saying "good luck, I won't be coming along" is a lot different than "I don't like what you are doing, it seems like a bad idea, you shouldn't even bother ..."

guglio - Trust me, as someone who wrote for UDE's Vs websites for a couple of years - they do not let anything get printed that goes against their official doctrine. If TBS was allowed to say "Do the council", it's because UDE wanted that message out their. You would not believe some of the petty stuff that has been censored over the years.

Please then read the exact sentence he uses.

He says "a council [to issue] bans and erratas."

Not "a council to do everything you guys want it to be used for."

If it was just for bans and erratas, I would be all for it.

I don't know, it just seems like people take what TBS said and ran with the concept, not what he said exactly. If he indeed speaks for UDE, then UDE wants a council to decide future bans / erratas, not anything else.

Ok. That's cool. So who makes sets? Who runs events? I'm not saying it has to be this council, or even one at all, but to me it seems simplest to keep things under one roof.

Again, fine. But maybe introduce that stuff slowly rather than:

"Here's this council, and we do A, B, C, D, E, and F."

That's a bit overwhelming and hard to trust all at once.