I vote in store also. Most of my favorite bibtb figures are regular size. Doom, Mandarin, etc.

To reiterate my position I will quote the company representative. The first bolded line from the quote clearly states that one of the goals of the BBB program is to reward customers who buy a brick of Heroclix. I also understand that Wizkids is in the business of making money, for that is the primary goal of any business. The BBB program is a reward, as well as an incentive, to buy larger quantity of product at one time. The BBB fig is not the product itself, it is a reward for buying the product. The product being the figures inside the bricks. This reward is marketed as a free to the customer. Free because via the mail-in method, you are only required to pay for S and H fees, and via the in-store method, you are not required to pay for it at all. The second paragraph states that in the case of HOT, they were able to produce a sufficient quantity to have a successful in-store program. So the argument that the cost of producing 17,000 Surtur BBB figs, as opposed to 5,000, would not make the program successful is invalid. More expensive... Obviously, but unsuccessful... no. From this we can assume that using an existing sculpt ( even a giant sized sculpt) with new paint and a new dial, can and in fact has been proven to be a successful BBB program. Would this program be successful with a new sculpt or Larger base? Only the number crunchers at Wizkids could answer that question with any certainty.

Now what does the customer want? There are two polls that show a majority of those polled would prefer the in-store method. You can view and vote on these two polls here:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266482

Arguments on how priceless or worthless these figs are once in the hands of the customer are relative to each individual's perspective. But consider this. A standard sized BBB fig with a terrific dial (like SI Gamora for example). If this fig was distributed via the in-store method, making it's rarity fairly common, and worth on the secondary market, somewhat small. Would this very usable figure not be a desirable addition to a Heroclix collection?

Making a profit is the first priority to running and staying in business. A happy customer is more likely to buy more of your product over a longer span of time. Heroclix has been around for many years and many players have stuck with this game since it's inception. I personally have been playing since Infinity Challenge. The company has to give the customer what they want to keep them happy. If the majority of customers want point-of-sale BBB figs with their bricks, than the company should oblige them if possible. Likewise, if the majority customers want mail-in BBB figs with their bricks, than the company should oblige them.

In the end, I guess all I'm trying to say is that this is an instance where I think the fans and buyers of Heroclix should have the companies ear.

I agree with a some of the assertions about making customers happy being the long-term key to success, but I disagree about a number of points, so I can't resist breaking this down.

This was in a press release. They said, "one of the goals." They could have also said "one of our goals is to get people to buy more bricks" but that wouldn't go over so well even though it actually true. In fact, if they didn't believe it helps sell more bricks it wouldn't be a promotion at all. Promotions are designed to get you into the store, with the "reward" being the mechanism.

The cost of production is higher when you make more. That's a given. If they seal them into the bricks then they could eliminate the extra handling costs that were incurred by distributors and retailers. Put as a question, do you think Diamond was happy trying to keep track of every brick figure to match every brick? It's quite possible that's a factor that they can't overcome so quickly. It also costs more in staff and management to handle a mail-away redemption. I'm guess, but pretty confident that cost is more than the manufacturing costs. Some say the holy grail in sales is getting the customers email. Do that and the battles nearly won, don't and you've already lost. This is a huge benefit to the mail-away program. It allows them to notify people about every new release.

For me the question of what the brick figure should be is entirely different. I don't even want to go there. Either way the program would be more successful if it's a better figure. I'd leave it at that.

In my view these polls come down to whether you want something handed to you for free, or not. It's an obvious choice when put in those terms, and many people still say they'd rather jump through a hoop. That's over just being handed something free.

The only reason people like the mail-away option is that they see value in it. Logical inference, there is less value in the figure when it is given out free to just about everyone. It may not be the only factor, but it's the biggest one. It also means that when they're given out in abundance, the main purpose of the promotion is lost.

IF they could figure out how to give out brick figures to brick buyers, and not have a ton left over that just get handed out or sold for a buck or three, then we could discuss the in-store brick promotion. As it is, if they make 17,000 Batman/Catwoman brick figures and send the to stores they simply won't promote brick purchases very well.


I really think the small vs. large is an entirely different conversation. I'm just looking at mail-away vs. give-away, and the effect of the resulting production levels.

Priceless or worthless may be relative, but there are plenty of marketing departments and accountants that can quantify it afterward, and often predict it in advance. In the case of brick figures, let's look at the lowest buy-it-now items on ebay today. Keep in mind that for some of these many showed up at distributors after Wizkids shut it's doors: World's Finest $59.95. Doom $19.99. Clown Prince $19.99. Phantom Stranger $4.95. Venom $19.95. Surtur Ragnarok $2.99. Check ending bids on Surtur Rags and he's $1.04 to $4.25, with one auction ending unsold despite a $0.99 starting bid. And that's for a set who's rares and super-rares prices are actually increasing.

What that tells me is that Wizkids called Surtur Ragnarok a brick promotion, but treated it like a re-introduction of the brand customer reward. Exactly what you want. Should they do that every time? Sure. We'd all love it. But it ends up not being a brick figure promotion. This is because most customers don't buy a whole brick.


This basically says that most people will buy stuff if they get free stuff. There's certainly truth to that. However, Wizkids does NOT "have to give the customer what they want" every time, which is clearly illustrated by the fact that every poll that has ever run here has had opposing viewpoints. They can't give every customer what they want. The company has to put out a good product. That's all.


I'm sure we do have their ear. We see company reps posting responses to rules, to questions, and to clarify statements. They then have to use that information to make a good product. If they made every decision based on the requirement that people get free stuff they will fail. They do not owe us anything. They do have to produce a quality product to keep us interested, though.

Well, they would have certain info that we don't have. Namely, the production and orders from brick figures from Armor Wars through Monsters/Mutations. AFAIK, we've never had the numbers of Kryptos or Mandarins out there. Clearly, something must have prompted all the changes that came with Crisis/World's Finest. And we know for sure SS: Illuminati was ordered at a much slower rate than World's Finest.

They did say, although I don't believe them, that there were twice the World's Finests as there were previous brick figures.

The new regime also said HoT sold at above SI numbers, when the facts seem to show that they made over 5,000 fewer cases of HoT, so I know they're not perfect.

It's also true that after Wizkids shut down a LOT, hundreds at least, of CPoC unnumbered versions showed up at D/A and were offered as a buying incentive. They were "numbered to 5,000", but actual production was, I'd guess, between 5,500 and 7,000.

I'd prefer smaller point costed, more readily use-able figures like Dark Beast. THAT was a great BiBtB figure.

What about a highly desirable generic figure?

I think wizkids will do the best it can to keep it's customers happy. If they need to save costs by doing a mail away instead of in store then that's what they should do. That is what the best of their ability can give us I'll take it. If they decide they don't want to do the brick promotion at all I'm fine with that too. I just want my clix. 1-60 of each set is all I need to be happy. Less than that actually because I don't even complete most the cursr sets anyhow.

You spend a lot of time breaking down statistics and that is great. You sound like you have experience in that area. I won't argue with your stats, but Wizkids did refer to the HOT BBB in-store program as a success. That is a fact (unless Justin was lying about that). Break it down all you want. You can speculate about all the variables involved in calculating what Wizkids believes is a successful program, but in the end, the program worked successfully with the Surtur BBB fig for HOT.

Also, there is a difference between giving something away for free, which you seem to think I am suggesting, and a reward that comes with the purchase of a brick of Heroclix. Free Comic Book Day Heroclix giveaway is free. A BBB fig is a reward for a substantial purchase. There is a difference IMHO. Not an apples and oranges difference, but a significant difference nonetheless.

That could be cool. What did you have in mind?

Yep! While all the rest of us talk out our arse like normal people comical comes around being all factual and stuff. One day he shall learn it is so much easier to just blow hot air and not worry about pesky numbers and stuff.

I agree it was a success. It served a great purpose. I don't agree that it would be a good brick redemption format for any future sets.

They do give them away free already. You said so yourself. They just put a stipulation in. My point is that when 17,000 Surturs were made, there were almost instantly plenty available for non-brick buyers. I gave some away as prizes on our first game night. I couldn't give them away the 2nd game night because no one wanted one - even just to have for trades. So it succeeded as a giveaway, which was great after the one year hiatus, but failed big time as a brick promotion.

I have to agree with the BIBTB in-store promotion. I like the idea a lot better than having to the cut out and mail way of things on 2 issues. #1. I gotta travel quite a bit for work and if I'm gone when the new set comes out and I get home like 2 weeks later, I'm S.O.L.(or waiting a real long time for an un-numbered version), #2. I consistantly run into problems with Diamond/Alliance on shippments to my store. Sometimes I get the brick(s) on the day they are due out and sometimes later. Once again, I'm S.O.L.(or waiting a real long time for an un-numbered version).

I say if they want to produce a "limited numbered" figure, why don't they do what they did with the coupons for Starro or Galactus.

I agree totally

I think that making the BIBTB fig available at time of purchase is the way to go.

Maybe do what they did for Thor's Chariot if they want to go with bigger base figs?

My venue took any extra Rag Surturs leftover and put them into our prize pool.

Problem solved.

I have only seen Dark Beast, Krypto, and SS:I actually played on occasion.

what if there was a surplus again, like comical said with Surtur. IF they planned for this, then some people would actually WANT multiples.

What do people want multiples of? I know I'd like a better Doombot, one that is more than expendable mastermind fodder and enhancement. I'd take the Mindless Ones in a Dr. Strange-centered mystical set. Some people might like Spidey-clones--Scarlet Spiders. What about a cheap, generic, bare-bones kind-of Iron Man armor?

Any other ideas?