I think the whole idea that Hulk doesn't ignore unavoidable damage seem fairly cut and dry. I think players who want to ignore this just wants the Hulk to be neigh-invincible instead. Might as well make a Hulk that says, once he reached this click you win the game - or KO every figure around.

That's exactly what I want!!!!! lol

Nope, not really. I'd rather it just say on the card what it means.

My take: still badass.

Yep, I already know the explanation, hence the reason I stated in my post that I already know the explanation. Still, the phrase "all damage" includes unavoidable damage and maybe designers should shy away from using the all-encompassing term "all". That's what I'm saying. Or include the qualifier "except for unavoidable damage" even if that phrase is automatically implied by terms of the game.

I'll go with this. Whenever possible, the card should encompass as much of the possible effects of a given power/ability.

Are there specific rules governing damage? Yep. However, if a power says "all," then it should MEAN "all," IMO.

Yes and the power specifically states "ignores all damage" if a damage specifically states "cannot be ignored", it just simply cannot be ignored.

So do you think that I should be able to Mastermind away unavoidable damage like Mystics and MC feedback?

By your rationale, I can MM these things because I can deal all damage away even though unavoidable damage says this can't happen.


What we have here is the same thing that allows HoT Captain America to see through Stealth.

X can do Y.
Z can't have Y done to it.

Who wins? Z

I get your point. I also understand, however, that up-front clarification of possibly confusing/misinterpreted special powers (which, by nature, tend to modify the existing mechanics of the game) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Particularly in a game with various players' guides, errata, etc., comprising a small phone book in volume (not to say that this issue in particular isn't pretty simple to understand).

HC is a complex game in many ways. I don't really feel the need to (nor will I) back down from the argument that 3-5 extra words of text on a card with an absolute qualifier (in this case "any," which ordinarily means...well...ANY) would do anything but make things simpler right out of the gate. Which, IMO, should always be the goal.

Z is "ignores all damage except from an attack....".

Z is also "unavoidable damage cannot be ignored but(in the case of mystics or whatever) is not an attack"

But in this case we are supposed to know Z is greater than Z. Without the qualifier of "except for unavoidable damage" it doesn't really compute in that illustration. Because Z=Z without a qualifier.

you guys keep leaving out all the other letters of the alphabet!!!

Unavoidable damage is already detailed in the Core Rulebook. There is no need to include the "except for" clause.

If this game were to start including reprintings of core rules on Character Cards for total clarity of each Trait or Special Power, then we would need Character Pages.

Not necessarily. All the card in question would need is (except for unavoidable damage).

Some may find it redundant, but it would eliminate the need for threads like these.

I understand why unavoidable damage is, well, unavoidable. However, here's another debateable point.

Hulk's power states that "Hulk ignores all damage dealt to him unless it is dealt by an attack and the attack roll is doubles, but not a critical miss." Per page 6 of the 2011 rulebook, "game effects originating from rules on individual cards supersede the rules in this rulebook[...]." Thus, Hulk's power supersed the rules for unavoidable damage. The reason that you can't mastermind unavoidable damage from mind control or mystics is because mastermind isn't a game effect originating from rules on individual cards, but from the PAC (and thus must follow the normal rules of the rulebook); if a game effect originating from rules on individual cards read the exact same way as mastermind reads on the PAC, then you would be able to argue that you could transfer the damage to another model.

Instead of writing errata on the Hulk's power, the simplest errata might be to make Unavoidable Damage the sixth Golden Rule; at that point, NOTHING could ignore Unavoidable Damage for any reason, which seems to be its intent.

You will notice that "individual cards" says nothing about those cards being restricted to character cards. It includes things like feat cards, battlefield condition cards, and the powers and abilities CARD (ie, the PAC) which defines Mastermind.

"All the card in question would need is (x)."
Now apply this to every Trait and Special Power that has ever had a question about its clarity.
Start putting "Once per turn" back on every game mechanic with "Free Action".
Add a few lines here and there to everything that may have a 10 page Thread debating how a power/trait/ability should work.

The ammount of information that HeroClix would have to provide for each Special Power/Trait to eliminate the need for threads like this would be huge! Say, like, maybe, 137 pages.
Yes, that's the page count on the current Golden Age Player's Guide.
And people still wouldn't be satisfied.