Well, it *is* its own game, but if you mean they should have made all new rules, IK totally disagree. I am much happier having a game that captures the essence of ship-to-ship combat in the STU without having to learn a new game system. I already *HAVE* a game system that uses STU ships in this scale and different mechanics - it's called Federation Commander. And I wanted something simpler; using mechanics I already have a firm grasp of is a huge bonus.

And ships "push" in the Star Trek movies and books all the time. That's Kirk getting Scotty to get him to "get a little bit more" out of the Enterprise. Pushing your ship past its normal limits damages it; it happens all the time in the source material. There are similar mechanics for this in SFB/Federation Commander, and those are the most popular games out there for STU ship-to-ship combat.


This I agree with.

I was pretty excited about this (and secretly hoping for Star Wars ships), but am really turned off by those dials. They are fabulous dials, but they just don't seem to make sense. Flurry? Super Strength? Really? Where are the special powers? In a game based on combat between spaceships, why would they ever need to be adjacent (unless the power was called "Ramming Speed!")?

My enthusiasm has waned.

What a fail on this, Wizkids has not clue on how to design Starships, wondering if they got any input from the Star Trek folks.

One point a cloaked Klingon ship cannot have shields raised, so if they have stealth why do they have inv.?



http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloaking_device
Along with high power consumption, this would explain why a cloaking device and a ship's shields cannot be raised at the same time. Chang's Bird of Prey, for example, did not have its shields up while cloaked in The Undiscovered Country. Also, the shields on the Duras Sisters' Bird of Prey failed when the cloaking device was activated in Generations.

And the excuse that they are cloaked makes them harder to hit is bogus, its a power along with stealth, and in the Trek universe they don't work together.

This with all the other stuff they are dumping on the players one right after the other is just to make as much as they can quick cause at this rate this game wont make it much longer.

Wow, a capital starship with an 8 attack, and 17 defense. So, Captain America vs. a capital starship, and the Captain can punch the window, and defeat a starship.

These clix were well thought out.

I mean, if it was Master Chief, maybe we could believe it... /sarcasm.

I think part of the issue is that their trying to create a balance between this set and the rest of Heroclix as whole. Because I could EASILY see a ten to twelve ship set where every ship was colossal and had Dark Phoenix level stats

mm220 V Enterprise
Team: Federation
Range: 10
Points: 1000
Keywords: Cosmic

12 14 19 7

12 14 19 6

12 13 19 6

12 13 18 6

10 12 18 6

10 12 18 6

10 11 17 6

10 11 17 5

9 10 17 5

9 10 16 5

9 10 16 5

9 9 16 5

8 9 16 4

6 6 13 3

5 5 12 3

8 10 15 4

7 10 15 4

7 10 14 3

7 8 14 3

7 9 14 3

7 10 15 5

7 7 16 7

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

NO...just no. Although, the regen on the enterprise made me chuckle, I could see it on voyager but on enterprise.... For the points they will be good for base switching on yet to be clixd characters.

Actually, they do. Frequently. Many of the dilemna's in Trek, particularly time based ones, come from the fact that you are already doing what is within safety limits - not pushing. Then, Picard/Sisko/Kirk/Janeway/Archer orders you to overide those limits and do more and Scotty/LaForge/Dax/Torres/Tucker tells you that its dangerous and will damage the ship (for whatever reason, it's usually the power couplings (you'd think they'd have realized it by now and made better couplings)) but you do it anyway. This frequently causes problems. Heck, on the NX-01, I'd give it trait that whenever it pushes it takes double damage, since it was falling apart so often.

You do realize that the Deflectos and the combat shields are seperate, right? The Deflectors are there to keep space debris and other material from managing to hit you at warp speed and tear you apart like Superman's fist. Over-riding these controls can withstand some phaser fire - though maybe not invulnerability level - though not for a long time. Keep in mind, this is top dial BEFORE the hull has been damaged anyway. Between the deflectors absorbing some of the damage, and the hull taking the rest, it's feasible.

I'm super pumped for this one.

Absolutely agree on the above (quoted the whole thing only because it's several pages back by now).

IMO an easy way to keep the compatibility and make this a separate game would have been accomplished with the introduction of two (easy) things:

1) a new damage type/symbol to separate the ships from the humanoid heroes/villains. The next iteration of the rule book could have had a sentence that "ships" can only be played with "ships".

2) Keep all the power descriptions and colours of the PAC but give them different names, just like we've seen with so many named powers already. If all Stealth clicks were titles "cloaking device", etc. there'd be a whole new world of Trek-flavour without impacting the learning curve at all.

The above would have been very very easy to do and if everything had stayed the same (rules, costing process per dial, etc.) the players could still go crazy and let hordes of hobbits and goofy super-heroes take the battle to the Klingon fleet. All it would have taken would be one small house rule: ignore what I've described in 1).

As it is, it really seems kind of weird what they've created here.

(But I might be biased, because I'm no fan of generic rules systems to be played with all kind of different genres, like GURPS or D20 in RPGs).

Regen makes perfect sense on The Enterprise with Mr. Scott in Engineering.

He's always pulling off some miracle and getting systems back on-line and functional so that the ship can get back in the fight. Just look at Star Trek II. Or Star Trek III.

James T. Kirk: How much refit time before we can take her out again?
Montgomery Scott: Eight weeks, Sir, but ya don't have eight weeks, so I'll do it for ya in two.
James T. Kirk: Mr.Scott. Have you always multiplied your repair estimates by a factor of four?
Montgomery Scott: Certainly, Sir. How else can I keep my reputation as a miracle worker?
James T. Kirk: Your reputation is secure, Scotty.

full disclosure. I AM A HUGE TREKKIE.

Secondarily. The USS ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-A is NOT a Constitution class Enterprise. It is an ENTERPRISE CLASS because it was built to be the Enterprise and is the only ship of its class in the WHOLE of Star Fleet.

Again.... the idea was to use the same game system so it would be familiar for players in addition to easy to teach and to learn for new players. Throwing out the game system or heavily altering it would be silly. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

They don't need different power names. Because the power names are just a general explanation of what the powers do. That's why the game switched over to having cards for every piece... so they could go into more detail with what is causing that effect.

Exactly. And it's not just Scotty...pretty much all the STU ship shows have a Chief Engineer who is constantly repairing them as quickly as possible. Scotty is probably the best at it though. I'm not sure how else you would represent that using the Heroclix rules engine, other than Regeneration. It's not literally the ship repairing itself...it's Engineering repairing the ship's systems and getting them back online.

If anything, I think Voyager would be harder to justify, as the biological systems seemed to be MUCH harder to repair.

Well, it *IS* it's own game and WK even said so from the begining. People who are complaining about the scale issues and "reality" bending needed to make them playable on the same map as your "humans" are either forgetting that or just want something to moan about.

However, because it is completely compatiable...

I cannot wait to get these and run them with Toyman to represent little remote control minions.

This is a literal Kobayashi Maru for Wizkids - a no-win scenario:

1.) Make a new system with new mechanics and every one will ##### that, because its not compatible, it will fail and we can't afford a whole new game and why not just make it compatible with clix.

2.) Make it compatible with clix and you get the b****-moaning found herein.

I am like Kirk - I don't believe in the no-win scenario.

I will play these and enjoy them and laugh at the "superior" intellects who frown upon it.

The word is given. Warpspeed!

People are never happy unless they're complaining. So no surprise there.

Love the idea of them as Toyman's remote control minions. Pym particles works also.