More then likely Earth-Twelve.....

Fixed that for you.

TOO Freaking complicated.

Heroclix used to be so nice and simple without even need cards, just with a PAC, now not even with the cards you have the explanation of how things really work.

Like Flash.

"Flash can use HSS AND Phasing"

Me: "Great! Flash can use both like in the comics in the same time! "

"Nop. Its one OR the other"

Me: WHAT?! then WHY they put "AND" why they don't put just "OR"!

and more important than that: WHY this happen! it don't make sense in a comic acurate sense!

and even more: WHY they do it so complicated! I'm here to have FUN! not to learn a rules 12 volumes Rules collection!

I cannot even use the Wonder Twins!

"Wonder Twins can do a double action but only one power or without powers etc etc etc"

CarlosMucha Wonder Twins house rule:

You can use ANY power that they can use. TWICE because they have 2 actions for be Duo.

Thats it!

Yo creo que la problema es que no puedes entender ingles muy bien. Si el PAC era en espanol, pienso que podrias entender lo mejor.

Tarzan tampoco podia entender ingles muy bien.

Pero aun sin ingles Tarzan podia hacer Charge, Leap and Climb, defeat a Lion, outwit a hunter's gun AND Kiss Jane TODO al MISMO tiempo.*








*Y sin necesidad de tener un character card OR PAC.

I really doubt Tarzan could do all of those things at once.



Anyway...the rules aren't that hard to understand. I understand them pretty damn well.

Honestly, it baffles me that people have such a hard time with them. I think people just don't actually READ the rules. I think they just learn the game from other people that didn't read the rulebook either.

Or...maybe I'm just way smarter than everyone else.

People don't want to read the game. People want to play the game!!

Because a thorough set of rules is required to make tournaments fair. If you never play in tournaments, fine, but some of us do (hell, some of us only play in tournaments), and that section of the community requires that the rules be absolutely as thorough as possible in order to settle disputes over rules in the tournament setting. This is to make sure that the same rules question will be answered in the same way by every judge in every tournament, rather than being able to be loosely interpreted one way by one judge and another way by another judge. If all you do is play casually, then maybe make up some house rules with your friends to make it more fun. But the official rules need to be 'complicated'. Also, if you ever think that the PAC and a 20-something-page rulebook are too complicated, I'd like to point your attention at the hundreds of pages worth of rules that Magic players are required to know...

Rules are there for the same reason they have rules in any game. Maybe if you can't handle rules, you can go back to knitting or something.

For the record, this level of complexity that you are talking about existed well before special powers and character cards. Any time a character had Charge and CCE or Flurry and BCF or Running Shot and Pulse Wave and so on, you would have to get out your PAC and check to see what was what. All special powers did, in this particular regard, is allow more combinations.


Now, if you want to say that other special powers, ones that either tweaked standard powers or did something entirely new, made the game more complicated, you won't get any argument from me. But the level of complexity being discussed in this thread (including your example) has existed in this game since day 1 in one form or another.

Are you nuts? Have you ever tried knitting something? It's freaking hard!

I've been called that a few times...

Well that was kinda rude.
The rules are complicated, and getting more so rather than less: it could hardly be otherwise when the effects are becoming more involved. And most players don't really want to develop a complete and thorough understanding: it takes time and effort to stay up on all this stuff. Most players, from my experience, would prefer to have a basic knowledge and rely on the judge (or their buddy, or The Great Pumpkin) to resolve any odd questions. They don't deserve derision because of that.

Th Great Pumpkin is such a douche-bag. He's always leaving poor Linus hanging out in the cold every Halloween.

That guy deserves to be kicked in the nuts and be turned into a pie.