When was the last time you ever saw anyone base-break a Donar?

These units are obviously just the 'filler' of the set. You can't make every unit in a set playable, that's too difficult.

The vehicle is stable, too bad it's stable "Please don't base me Mr. ATV" insignificance.

The Panther is just like the Gyrfalcon. Awesome damage potential that will never come into play unless your opponent makes a rather large and silly error, or is unlucky enough to have a poorly equipped army for the job.

Even with the rumoured DFA faction abilities, unless it turns out that Jade Falcon will have a faction ability that says "All JF mechs have agility" or something similar, I can't see this mech being anything more than a liability.

All the (sit and shoot) attack power in the world doesn't matter one bit in this game, if your defense isn't at least 20 (although many will say more than that since CA). The JF Panther can't even think of entering the Mjolnir's 28" radius of death, and worse actually FEARS being near infantry with a 7 attack.

A lot of people will salivate over the potential damage of the Panther and Gyrfalcon, but sadly due to the mechanics of this game, 18 defense nullifies any ranged combat damage output you can dream of. I don't care if you have 15 attack with IT and 10 damage pulse if you only have 18 defense.

I'm sure not all JF mechs will have 18 defense, we've only seen lighter mechs so far, but I really hope the heavies have higher than 20 defense.

Anyways I think that Jade Falcon mechs should model their new motto after the Gladiators of Rome.

"We who are about to die salute you!" :grin:

Excuse me, but if I recall true Clanners refused melee combat. What's up with thoese DFA rumors???

Suskis, being in the Inner Sphere for several decades made the Clanners change their tactics. Things like that happen.

"I don't think we're in the 31st century anymore, Toto..."

couple of points:

1) Dont assume everyone plays this game ultra-competitively; this game is not balanced and stable enough for ultra-competitive play IMHO, as we have seen with the constant emergence of 'cheese'

2) Dont assume that since a unit isnt the new 'cheese' then it is useless; the majority of people who play MW:DA do not go to nationals, have huge collections of mecha or even care that a mech is 57.514% worse value than the same cost in DF ATVs and SS A IV's.

3) Many people play this game for fun, not as a sport. This game is fun, and here we play it as such. Sure, its nice to win, but to play an entertaining game in which both players genuinely have a chance is better.

saying that however, I do have an arnis (hmm)

But anyway, I think that we owe thanks to the people thet actually make this game, and put up with the horrendous amount of criticism we give them no matter what they do. If the JF panther had a 21 def as well; you would all be moaning that it is 'cheese' and as it doesnt, you moan about that too. It is a no win situation for those who make the mechs and to be perfectly honest I dont really think they care that much what our collective opinion is, as the one thing for certain is that they love this game more than we do, for they make it, and these units fit thier design, not yours. Nothing you can say will change that.

It is easy to criticise, but It is difficult to create something new.

just my 2 cents

Out of curosity....

Vtols's are a threat to just about any unit out there. Saying the panther is, well....it's rather blatenly obvious. Even to those of us who are not main line competitive.

Hence why Anti-Air was invented.

See arguments are stating that he's weak to Vtols's, Artillery, Infantry, Charging, DFA'n but isn't every unit out there?

Here's a great way to use the panther.
Against VTOls - Use some Anti-Air
Against Infantry - Bring some AnP and nuke them
Against Artillery - Bring some of your own or tie them down
Against mech- Base them with infantry and blow them out of the water with the pulse, and or DFA them, or even heaven forbid do a little charge action of your own.

For 120 points, there should be more than enough support to acomplish all of these things. And even being 120 point mech you still have suffient firepower and attack to lay the hurt down to any size mech.

And that alone far outstrips what other mechs can do, esspeicaly in a 120 point range.

Don't get me wrong, everyone plays by different rules when going out to lay the hurt on. The above is mine.
-BA

@ chimperor...

Worthy points and all... but this thing isnt even that viable in semi-competitive or casual play. Just too easy to get around that 18 defense. Sure, maybe the JF player can field a ton of infantry for base/break style tactics. Thing is, so can the other player. His mech (if he is fielding one) doesnt really need to be afraid of the base/breaking infantry. The JF Panther DOES need to be afraid of the base/breaking infantry.

I'm sorry BloodyAngel, don't get me wrong, I have always respected your opinion here, but what will you do against a low cost Scorchers/DF (or Merc) Kanazuchi/SS TAC drop? AnP won't help you there. There's an instant unblockable 2-4 damage right there, knocking the Panther out of it's offensive usefulness. In fact, any 2 damage infantry with a 7 attack or higher with a range greater than 4 (a lot of the infantry out there) can just advance on this mech with no fear (hoverbikes anyone?). As First-And-Only said, these are obviously filler units from FP. Not really a great way to build up hype for a new set, no?

I see my wife fielding a star of these things against my Republic lance.

*shudders*

18 def is (reasonably) easy to hit, sure, but a potential 8 damage (x5) coming at me is intimidating, to say the least.

i say you stop complaining about an expansion that isnt out yet, and about units you've never played with, and faction abilities that you have never seen or used. see, this is why the FAQ's get updated so much, and why so many things are so bad in DA, you want something one way, and when it is that way, it's cheese. and now you want aerospace? if you didnt complain so much about everything, units from the first set would be evenly powered against current units, but because of your complaints, units had to be changed, powers removed, SE's changed and made useless....all i'm saying is WAIT TIL THE THING IS RELEASED TO MAKE A JUDGEMENT CALL!

normaly I don't add my two cents, but this time I'll make a small exeption. I would field that piece if I decide to go into JF. The thing is... instead of looking at it's weaknesses, why don't we look at it's stregnths. the first obvious thing is that it has the potential of doing 8 damage for only 120 points. sure 18 defense is tough to work with but, being a faction pure DF player, I feild similar stuff all the time. and I do win games with 18 defense mechs (centurian, Locust, Packhunter, etc.) most of which don't even do half the damage the JF panther can do. also his heat dial isn't too shabby. I've seen better, but I've seen much worse also.

on a slightly different note, and one that has probably already been talked about, this piece is the green unit. this means that there will be other higher ranking pieces. this usualy means stronger... although it dosn't always.

If all the new FP stats look like that, I won't need to buy any. Wait untill after x-mass and get a case for $200, just in time for FFe and DA retirement.

I hope that the DF will get the elite version of this Mech (please, please, please!).
The JF-Panther is not that bad as many people believe. Sure it´s defense value is very low, which means to me, that it needs a little support to overcome this weakness. I agree that this machine can be charged to death, but i always have some units in my armies that make charging a very risky option. In a 900 pt. game 2 weeks ago somebody tried to charge my Bounty Hunter, but in the air my so-called "High Threat-Response-Team" was waiting for this moment. My opponent moved his 2 SwSw-Mjolnirs in position to charge at the next turn. Now my little Calvary unit (2 DF-Shun + 4 DF-Kanazuchi) moved in and virtually crippled both Mjolnirs with a devastating bombardment. I would try the same tactics when using the Panther, place some fast units next to him, and then your opponent will either suffer for his attempt, or he considers the risk not worth to try it.
In my opinion the panther is a nice, cheap mech that will see some play (at least i will try him).

Why are you trying to judge the JF by secondline units. If they stay with the story line of the JF, these units can be nothing else (ok they haven't actually inspired confidence in following story line with the CBT that well, but they have said that the JF are the most Clan like of those left in the innershpere) the panther is nothing more than a modified innershpere mech which no trueborn warrior would ever be assigned to, and armor has never been in the tourma previously so is a consisation to the current situation and the need to adapted. Clan Tatics have always been combined arms Mech and Elementals, and having played with the LE a bit that is how he works best, i am looking forward to see what they have done with the Elementals for JF and to seeing more of the front line Mechs that I can look forward to commanding. As for these second line mechs the panther is as playable or more playabe than any other panther in the game right now, and as for armor, I just give it to the Flacons lack of experince with such things, and second line and shalom units are usally not that good

I also think these units are second-liners... why else would such a traditionalistic clan like the Jade Falcons field IS designs and vehicles? They need filling material for their garrisons.

The tank is just bad.... too low damage output for a vehicle that costy. The faction abilities really need to be good to make that thing worth its cost. Just compare it with the Highlander Regulator II which has much higher defense, better damage with armor piercing, faster speed and greater range for less cost.

For the Panther: in current "competative" environment its useless. Point.

But in friendly games, I could compare it to Kym Nova Cat:

Kym / Panther:

Cost: 119 / 120
Firing Arc: 270° / 180°
Primary Range: Ballistic 4/12 inchs / Ballistic 0/4 inchs
Secundary Range: Energy 0/12 inchs / Energy 0/12 inchs
Primary Damage: 3 /3
Secundary Damage: 3 with Pulse / 4 with Single Use Pulse
Movement: 8 / 8 with Jump Jets
Attack: 9 / 10
Defense: 21 with Reflective / 18
Vent: 2 / 2

Heat Dial 1st click: 0 green, 0 green 0 green / 0 green, 0 green 0 green
Heat Dial 2nd click: 0, 0, 0 / 0, 0, 0
Heat Dial 3rd click: -1, 0, 0 / 0, 0, 0
Heat Dial 4th click: -1 yellow, -1, -1 / 0, 0, -1
Heat Dial 5th click: -2 yellow, -1, -2 yellow / 0 yellow, -1, -1 yellow
Heat Dial 6th click: shutdown / shutdown

I dunno... I cannot really judge right now because we don't know the Faction abilities... but right now, I'd rather field my good old Kym Nova Cat.

Anyway, right now, I did not see any JF unit that could cause trouble that I could not solve with Arnis / Mjolnir, Dual Mjolnirs, Arnis / Donar or Dual Donars.

But then again: these units are most propably filler units of the sets. We still need to see the really good ones.

For the Panther, I've got a good feeling. The green version is JF, so I hope for a Veteran for my Cats with higher defense (and maybe 14 inchs?) and the Elite version for the Dragons Fury (as it should be since the Panther is a Kurita design).

I'm still highly disappointed that, as rumors say, the Spirit Cats won't get Elementals!