So when a Draconum starts walking he would go at half speed? What about vampires like Order of Vladd? I could understand restricting certain things to half speed when walking, but you can't have certain units be restricted due to how the rules are set up. Besides most fliers are humanoid with wings.
And why is that a standard foot soldier(Elf-at-arms for example) can move faster than most fliers? or most cavalry for that matter? The inability to go in formation is also not a good decsion(trying to be nice about my feelings about this). That is what is so stupid about the new flight.

the best analogy I can think of is the Flying Monkeys in the Wizard of Oz. They can run as monkeys or fly like birds, like lots of creatures would be able to do in MK. And they had a pretty good formation of flying monkeys going after Dorothy.

I'll bet if I tried to release a "new" game that was as similar to MK 2.0 as 2.0 is to classic MK, I'd be hit with a lawsuit real fast :)

On a 3' table, a 6" move can get you to threating the center in 2 moves. Now it takes 4 - that's quite a difference from an effectiveness point of view!

Not if played in an AG army. And EL and NS are missing out on forced march for their foot based charge/bound models.

They can still be enhanced, but they and all other figures with less damage than arrows took a big hit in power.

Um, yeah, yeah, I meant to say the can't be in a formation at all, right. I wasn't thinking about our usual house rule that flyers can move in formation with other flyers and forgetting it was just a house rule, really I wasn't! :D

The whole real point was that while some figures got better, others got worse. Just saying "figures A and B got better, therefore everything's better" isn't any different from saying "figures A and B got worse, therefore everything's worse". Doesn't even matter if I think things are overall better or worse or not.

When I bought a Titan or an MDF I got rules for it, now they are taking away those rules and not replacing them. It was a figure I had, it was useable in MK, now its not. That's not 100% compatibility. They couldn't spare one page in their book to give me the rules for figures I have paid cumulatively around $400 dollars for, I think I've got a legitimate gripe. I've got no way to know if they'll actually put rules out for them or not.

I consider being able to hurt your own figures a poor tradeoff for Invulnerability becoming worthless unless accompanied by battle fury :)

Yup, some go up, some go down, which is my point - you just can't say everything gets better because a few do.

Every game I've played since they released the demo rules...haven't tried domains though. What's your point?


There are figures it looks like I won't be using in 2.0, but every time someone says, "Wow, but you can now use figure X", its a figure I happily used anyway.

One thing to notice is the handling of multiple range attacks. Damage is now divided among your targets according to how much you do. This makes some figures extremely versatile while hamstringing others.

For example the Storm Golem (my favorite) is now even better with multiple range attacks since he has 4 damage to divide among 3 targets. He can do 1 damage to 2 targets and 2 damage to the third. A single Enhancement figure can really make him shine by letting him assign 0 damage to 2 targets and still inflict 1 damage from Enhancement while still doing full damage to the third target +1 from Enhancement.

Other pieces who benefit are the Inquisitor (with Magic Freeze), the Necropolis Judge (again with Magic Freeze), the Heriophant (with Flame/Lightning), the Regal Draconum (again with Magic Freeze), the Magus, the Demiphant (with Flame/Lightning), Dwarven Rotary Fusers, the red Mountain Troll, Amotep Norda, Foster Gray, and basically any other figure who has damage equal to or higher than the number of targets they can hit.

On the flip side any figure who has damage less than the number of targets they can hit is pretty much hindered without some Enhancement. Like Noble Archers, Fanged Gunslingers and Dwarven Thunder Gunners.

Depsite the lessening of a few figures I think alot more of the older figures are now even better and the new multiple range rules allow for better use in hitting multiple targtes

How do you know I don't have a market share? Did you ask? Do you know what I do for work? No because the majority of you can't see past the "negative" comments.

Most of you have probably read my posts, now try actually comprehending them and treating me with a little bit of respect. Have I assaulted anyone who likes the rules? No in fact I stated that the rules themselves were a huge step in the right direction and it is only the illusion of compatability that I disagree with, and feel it could have been done better. Where is my version? You'll likely never see it because I'm doing it for my local playing group. I will not post my small changes that allow my friends and I to continue to enjoy the product that WizKids produces, and it would be inappropriate to provide links to games that I have helped design.

*claps* Bravo Shraka, Bravo!

At least you want to enjoy the game since there are elements that you don't care for and if your group is ok with it who CARES what others think.

It's always sad that people who don't like things are considered "whiners."

It just seems like opinions are deemed negative and worthless if it doesn't come with reasons and logic that appeal to some people. Can't you guys just take it at face value and that's it. Agree to disagree.

I personally don't like some of the things about this new game that is 2.0 compatability, DT and Surge being a few. If i was able to, i'd change it for my group as well (provided i had one of course).

Shraka just wants to enjoy the GAME (it is still a game remember?) she has come to enjoy, why do people harp on her just because she wants to play it differently? Personally i wish i was in her area so i could see how it would be played.

My point being, everyone has a right to their opinion, just like everyone also has a right to disagree with it for whatever reason. The opinion doesn't have to cater to one's reasoning or logic. If you disagree with it, just agree to disagree and move on. Stop being such a zealot about an opinion. If shraka wants to play it her way, instead of slamming her, why don't you just wish her luck and be glad that she is buying product to support a game that she likes?!?

No, i guess it's just easier to slam people who have a different opinion that goes in contrast to the majority. :rolleyes:

Again, Shraka, i know you said that you won't post your proposed changes (not that i blame you after the "treatment" you've been getting from Army C and Mrdbeau) but i still would want to hear about it. Good luck in your attempts

Sure you could change the rules to how you want to play them, just for fun. But what if the others you play with don't want to deviate? I personaly know a couple people who are anal like this and wouldn't dream of not playing it the way WK wrote it. And what if your friends aren't into MK at all? Where do you go to play? Torunaments. And there's no deviation in those rules. (Nor should there be).

So if your stuck with these rules, and they don't work for you, you're screwed.

Shadowmancer: Thanks alot for your post. Prior to the release of the full rules and SAC the most often response to any comment about 2.0 was met with "wait till it comes out." and now that its out and I can see what 1.0 warriors will be like in 2.0 and how I know the players in my area will react to these rules I have the same opinion of it as I had before only more solid and reaffirmed. I come on and people don't want to have a discussion or agree to disagree, it is their way or the highway.

If you are indeed interested in the changes that we design then PM or email would be best, however I ask that these changes not be posted in this or any other forum.

Again I thank you however one small detail.....I'm not a she. :)

redtiger7: Fortunately for me I pretty much am the MageKnight guru in my area. We do have a few rules lawyers players however everyone is in agreement that trying alternate 2.0 rules would be in our best interest. Not everyone avidly hates the 2.0 rules, some don't mind, however the majority does. Should the majority change and 2.0 becomes a popular thing to play, then to be fair the alternate rules would have to be put aside. However I also think that it is possible that any changes I make may also later be worked into the official rules, as it is only logical that similar conclusions will be met if they better serve the game.

Shraka, I thought you were a he, but when I saw someone referring to you as a she I thought maybe I was wrong, and I was about to apologize for calling you a he. The gender thing has been solved. :)

WK would solve MANY of these problems by allowing 1.0 AND 2.0 to be playable formats. If 1 person has a large 1.0 collection and cannot afford 2.0.... then they will still be happy........ and those with 2.0 or both will be happy as well.

Kenntak: It's strange only recently have people started mistaking me for a she (online), I don't really know why. Ambiguity of the interenet is a strange thing.

Maybe because of the Sh in Shraka. I think that the format thing is actually fine with MK's current state considering that 1.0 will remain 1.0 and things are as they are, but this limits any expansion for it. Personally I think they focused too much on just improving the game for newer players rather than considering the consequences it will take on the old ones. With the stated adjustments made a lot more of our 1.0 will be useful only making the game better. I for one am excited for 2.0, if not a bit disappointed with WK. I understand that they want to sell boosters, but if they aren't making the best possible effort to please all their consumers it will have the same affect as if our 1.0 dominated 2.0 so there was no reason to buy any.

Shraka: sorry, i could've sworn i heard you referred to as a she....... Guess i was wrong. I had to say something since i honestly get tired of the zealot-types getting on anyone because they have an opposite opinion.

Point is no one really will know about 2.0 till it comes out. So positive opinions are nice, but hey we can say that they're wrong too. By the spring of 2004 will tell if this new game that is 2.0 will either revitalize MK or kill it outright. So if some people don't like it, just leave it at that. It still is a GAME after all.

That's no sac! thats a freaking Special ability BOOK. in reference to the above post, we will indeed see what this does, it may have over-complicated the game to a point where there will be no newbs (can't live with em, can't live without em) . personally, if i didn't already have a good handle on the old stuff, i wouldn't be able to memorize all 10 pages of the sac, along with the relevant parts of the 28 page instruction book.

Don't forget the 30+ relics and domains that all have unique effects and how they interact with all the others.

I will say this, the only way I will play 2.0 is as 2.0 pure armies, no 1.0 allowed.

Well, Shraka, i definately you were near me. I personally like that side rule, as i don't really see (despite what others have posted) 1.0 really that interactable with the new rules. I tried, but it was like trying to shove a rectangle peg into a square hole, just doesn't fit. But that's just me. I stand by my prediction (likely others also agree on the timetable) that by the spring of 2004 will tell whether or not MK is truly dead.