I'm confused as to how Attend or Die is broken. I don't see that card as being too outragious. Could someone explain that one to me?

I think the most broken card at the moment may be Frankie. EoME is a dead issue in my mind, but then again so was the Master of Holograms and he recently got the boot.

Well I believe what Prosac is saying might be true because he seems to have his head on stait when it comes to VS i really hope they dont listen to you because I dont think most of thouse cards make the game that bad
The only one that really needs the Ban hammer droped on her is Frankie she is the enabler of all the problems I see in this game currently

Keep Ivy and Enemy (they make my favorite deck playable Migga City)

Combos using a loophole in it's removal effect:

They bounce characters to hand with Remnant Fleet, or the effect of Dagger [Midnight Sons version]. They can then discard cards to the free recruit effect of certain characters. The discarded card can then be recruited from the KO'd pile. This reduces the number of times you have to discard considerably, since a character you discard can still be recruited. [because your hand is not considered to be 'in play'.]

However, banning Frankie hurts that plan a great deal.

I think it would be best dealt with by errata to removing EVERY character card that goes to the KO'd pile ... or perhaps targetting the characters to be recruited like Witching Hour did [pre-errata]

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My list:

Frankie - Fait accompli ... I'm pretty sure that's what the Hump will becommenting on.

Poison Ivy/Ahmed Samsarra - The ability to tutor recursive locations consistently is the heart of the engine. You remove a few key engine parts, and it is no longer an engine ... however those parts can still be used for other purposes. The locations, need to expand in slots if they are no longer consistent to be searched out. A spot filled by a location is a spot NOT filled by a search card or other engine piece. Also, free characters have less to be fed too with Ivy gone. Ahmed is questionable ... he requires support cards to function ... and doesn't directly help the free characters ... he's a different engine. The 'other' engine is San ... however without Dr. Light, it's a limited engine ... bounce effects, and a time to replay him. That limits him to Villains United and Kree pretty much. [For being used more than once that is].

Devil's Due - Outside of Manhunter Giant, it's the only "unlimited" KO effect. Eliminating him would eliminate the ability to 'go infinite' with KO'ing free characters, even if there was a way to get them back to recruit again to do so.

Attend or Die - Errata or Ban

That leaves a variety of search [Enemy, Straight and Mobilize]. However, without Ivy/Ahmed ... Straight is slightly less consistent. Enemy's targets have been hit a bit, it's not like you can pitch Ivy to grab Dr. Light. Mobilize, outside of a Crisis deck ... acts as the alternative to Enemy.

It leaves Mxy and Stranger to reduce the cost of discard effects. However, without Light, without Frankie, without Ivy ... there's much less consistency in getting a board that you want to exhaust [since you can't just KO the character you exhaust very easily.] Also, without Frankie, there's less need to discard, especially not a need to discard Stranger over Mxy.

Wow, this thread is really impressive. I'll give the casual/kinda competitive point of view.

It really all comes down to the free characters. Breaking the resource rule is where the degeneration starts. If someone wants to run Ivy and has to sacrifice their 1 or 3 drop to her, I think thats fine. If they are playing against a rush deck, it may be too much of a sacrifice in board position to overcome.

Ahmed is another issue entirely. I don't mind him as much as ther are multiple ways to hurt him. Location-hate, KO effects, and you don't know how many times I've Ghost Rider'ed him for the win!

There are other ways to neuter some of these cards. Time Trapper is brutal against search, Fun & Games destroys Ahmed, and if there is a lot of Quickfate in your area, run 8 equiphates.

I think the best part of this thread lies in the fact that Vs needs to become fun again. My buddy stopped going to PCQs a while back, and I finally had him back on the hook for tomorrow, but once he heard about Frankie.dec he bailed. That's where all of this hurts the casuals just as much as the pros.

I fully understand that at the PC level it is different. But there's really no reason why it has to ruin it all the way through. My silly team and I have made a commitment to play Mono Spider-Friends at every OP event. Why? Because it's FUN! We tech to the local meta, test our brains out, and then revel in the fun of Fun & Gaming Ahmed all game.

Yeah, I think Adam has said it best...Vs needs to be fun again.

CC

In all fairness, they've given us the tools to do this with Mobilize. Yes, you have to team up first, but that should be the trade-off for being able to take advantage of the abilities of multiple teams, that you have to work a little bit harder. If people can produce decks like New School, I'm sure putting in the effort to get the right ratios of team-ups/Teamwork/whatever to make a multi-team Mobilize deck to work should not be too hard.

Ban Bizarro World!

cc-u do know that ahmed win was bs right? for god sakes he didnt run science spire, swift escape, or 5th dimension, not trying to burst ur bubble, but dont get happy cause some made a jank deck that didnt have right cards and u beat it lol (no offense gangbuster)

but i agree i miss having fun, either all my friends become dicks and play for money and no longer for fun and/or all my comic friends quit cause there favorite hero/team is tier ###

its ude's fault, i mean when they market vs, they told ppl off the back, hey play this game and u could win lots of money...they didnt even try to make/build a fan base, they went straight to the money part first, then attempt to make/build a fan base.

as much as i hate to say it, this is y yugioh is going to outlast vs

i'll be honest..i would want eome banned, but ude will never do that, to many ppl either spent alot of money for it or stoled alot of it lol

if they ban eome, I wonder how many vs players would quit for all that money down the drain...so yeah its bluff they'll never take

The one good thing I have to say about Frankie is this, unlike EoME, which is very rare, she is very common, and her pal the Phantom Stranger is close by.

One of the complaints I've heard about EoME is the lack of access to it. Perhaps the availability to Frankie, is what has kept her around. I think she might be best suited to an errata.

We've done it multiple times in Silver eternal. You exhaust their board during draw phase, drop Rider, activate. When they go to Spire, you Fun & Game in response. GG

Back to topic of FUN:

With MTU and then DWF already confirmed, and then the 2 legends sets, that pretty much finishes up 2007 right?

I mean there's Hellboy EC, do you think there may be another EC on the horizon?

I see Vs going the Magic route. With multiple banned lists for the three Ages. I think that might keep everyone happy, the casuals, the pros, and everyone who dropped serious cash on EoMe and Mobilze.

CC

More people like money than comic books.

I love comic books, but it's nothing compared to my love of money.

And for me, VS. has never been more fun than it is right now. I don't think drawing/cycling cards or excessive search makes VS. unfun.

In fact, I think VS. would be extremely unfun without those things.

No one should ever lose a game because they miss a drop, and they shouldn't be forced to run 36 characters or subpar teams with team-specific tutors just to make sure that they don't.

I agree largely with Prosak's list, with the exception of Mobilize. It's basically a team-stamped search card, which I'm fine with. I don't really even care if a team has 8-12 on team search cards.

The problem now is that with Enemy, character effects have basically replaced plot twists. There's a reason plot twist search is (currently) so limited (and should stay that way). Plot twist effects are supposed to be really powerful, especially team-stamped ones, but what's the point in even playing plot twists when Enemy gives you the same thing in a reusable body. It's really sad when (outside of search cards) an entire class of cards in the game is completely useless.

I know that this thread is simply a hypothetical exercise (something a lot of the posters seem to be missing), but can we please ban Enemy and make playing plot twists relevant again?

Why are people whining over enemy. I understand the crying over the expense thing, but that's it. There was no crying over signal flare. People wanted a card they could use on any team. Mobilize does that. Enemy is just another form of character search. It is not broken. Leave enemy alone.

Why bother asking this when you've obviously ignored the answers already given?

Ban EVERYTHING and start the game over.







I'm only half joking.