I was chatting with a friend about this exact subject. I enjoyed Echo, and I hear Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight and all that are good, but I was saying how odd it is that we're getting so many projects focusing on C or D-list Marvel characters many people know nothing about and have no excitement for. How many older movie-goers needed to have the difference between Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel explained to them? Did Agatha Harkness literally get a show green-lit because she had a catchy song in a different TV show? Do enough people even remember Ironheart from Wakanda Forever to warrant all of this?

I think the movies need to observe the comics more in this respect: roll all of your leftover bad guys or antiheroes in Thunderbolts, just like Busiek intended, and keep your sidekicks and background players to something more analogous to a solo title. Remember when we used to get Avengers movies to look forward to? Ah, good times!

Can you imagine if the new DC universe did a solo project for every single Bat Family member before they showed up in a Batman movie? Or if the new Superman movie spins out into a bunch of TV shows titled stuff like "OLSON" or "LEXCORP" or crap like that? Say what you will about his movies being kind of same-y, but James Gunn completely understands that you can just hit the ground running with stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy or Suicide Squad and not spend literal millions setting up every single bit player nobody is going to think twice about, and also recognizing that people want the whole circumstance for the sequel; Guardians didn't get followed up by a TV show all about Groot hanging out with trees, or Rocket going on a funny adventure to steal an arm, or any extraneous brand-diluting nonsense like that. After Guardians 1, you waited excitedly for Guardians 2, and when they all showed up in Infinity War and Endgame you were legitimately shocked and thrilled, much like reading a good crossover story.

Nowadays, every split second "I wish there was more content with x character" thought is fully indulged with "watch Baby Groot dance by the yule log!" or "don't worry, Agatha Harkness is getting her own miniseries! you know, from that show that will be four years old by the time you watch the new one! we sure are striking while the iron is hot!"

I hate to sound like "old man yells at cloud" but it's frustrating to see comic book movies mimic the exact same mistakes comic books themselves already went through decades ago. Some exec (or the apparently clueless head of Disney) gets a memo that says "people love Groot!" and instead of saying "great! that'll build up a lot of excitement for the sequel" he goes "GREENLIGHT FIFTY PROJECTS AND EIGHTY PIECES OF MERCHANDISE AND GET BILLBOARDS UP AND GET EACH OF THE BRAND ACCOUNTS TWEETING ABOUT IT" and instantly kills any sincerity or excitement behind the project. You really get the impression that these guys are just chomping at the bit to kill the goose before it even lays the damn golden egg.

I'm trying to shoot for cautious optimism since I genuinely do miss getting excited for the next big MCU release. I was talking comics with my partner recently and how we both missed the excitement of things like the first Avengers or the fun hints at upcoming projects and why neither of us really get as into them anymore. The overall sentiment we came to was up until Infinity War-ish (with some exceptions) everything still felt like it was its own fully realized contained project that just had hints at what might be to come. Now, almost everything feels like a preview for the next big project, the next big phase, the next seven shows and 6 movies you have to watch if you want to see your favorite character again. I'm just young enough to have lived right through the split of "nerd and geek" hobbies being treated like something to be mocked for and embarrassed of in school to every kid having an Avengers lunchbox and talking about their favorite heroes.

I'm so incredibly glad and grateful that comics and the genre are more accepted now than ever, but I hate that it's come at the cost of the casual fan suffering. Pre-Infinity War it felt like you could pick and choose what you wanted to watch and still do just fine. Even the crossover films could still be watched and enjoyed without having to know everything about every character. You might miss out on little nods here and there but you can still have fun.

This turned into a bit more of a rant than I intended lol. Point is I definitely support the idea on toning things way back and slowing down releases. I just want watching super hero movies to be fun again instead of feeling like a chore.

This is where I highly recommend MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios, which highlights that all of Marvel Studios' recent woes are self-inflicted by the Bob Chapek administration. That maximist, shove everything to Disney+, and make as much content for it as possible absolutely damaged the brand.

An exponential spurt in content, all of it apparently important, but little of it actually apparently so, and it only being 50/50 good will do that.

I do think that Marvel has shown that they're able to generate interest in more obscure characters --my Dad is beyond ready for the next Shang-Chi movie and to see more of BLACK WIDOW's supporting characters-- but bombarding with mediocre content doesn't help anything. It's the same thing that made the Jeffrey Eisner Disney administration seem so vanilla.

I guess the point of my post had been that while I'm optimistic that Marvel Studios will be able to course correct and reinvigorate their brand with quality and more deliberate project choices, it's just funny that they're reinventing Marvel Television and siloed content enterprises.

I think the only differences this time is that Marvel Studios will have a better, less adversarial relationship with their TV division and that the output from all the divisions will be stronger on average, ideally.

I’m still curious about how they’ll handle introducing the X-Men to the main MCU timeline.

If you have mutants pop-up post-blip as a new development, you can’t have any X-Men with notable experience or history. And a lot of central characters like Wolverine and Magneto kinda need that history.

If you want them to have history, you need to do the whole “they were secretly here all along” thing, which is clumsy.

And I really don’t think it would be a good idea to try to import them from a different timeline, because that makes the main timeline feel sort of diluted. Multiversal teams can be fun as guests, but they shouldn’t stick around as permanent additions.

I wouldn’t necessarily mind them reusing some FoX-Men casting, because casting was usually not the problem with the FoX-Men, but I would want it to be new versions with old faces. Like Patrick Stewart was in MoM. He was clearly not the same Xavier we followed in the FoX-Men movies.

Also, with the way X-Men ‘97 knocked it out of the park, any new cinematic X-Men will have a high standard to be naturally compared to.

My hot take is if Chapek was still calling the shots, Marvel would be in hot water with this one.

They've been seeding mutants since as far back as THE INCREDIBLE HULK, where they offhand reference Wolverine and the Weapon Plus program. SHE-HULK's newspaper talks about a dude in Canada with knives in his hands causing trouble at a bar. There are hints of mutants in MS. MARVEL and Damage Control's behavior in that seems primed to morph into anti-mutant enforcement.

...but if they continued as is, they'd have to do the ETERNALS-thing, where people ask where the hell they were during Thanos' invasion, the Blip, or Endgame. Full agreed, that's clumsy as hell. Alternatively, the best Marvel Studios could do in this scenario is say that Hulk or Tony's Snap did something to kickstart humanity into surfacing the X-gene.

...but they legally still couldn't use the Fantastic Four and the X-Men until 2025 because of some of the clauses in the Fox purchase agreement. If they did, Simon Kinberg and Bryan Singer would get to be co-producers, and nobody wants that.

Now that Marvel is scaling everything back and retooling their approach to the multiverse, it wouldn't surprise me if the X-Men are retconned into the universe Crisis on Infinite Earths-style, where it's like they've always been there, but the universe hasn't quite been as we've seen it in previous MCU films.

My own hot take is Marvel Studios should've never brought back Patrick Stewart, Hugh Jackman, or any other legacy actors from the Fox X-Men movies, if only to prevent easy comparison. I get that Kevin Feige cut his teeth on those films, but it just seems to be the stronger move to start fresh with their own continuity and pretend those films never happened. Granted, I don't have much nostalgia for those movies; other people's mileage may vary.

You also raise a great point about X-MEN '97-- it's going to mark the second time the live action movies are compared against a benchmark animated series. With how well the show was received, the movies are going to have an uphill battle ahead of them!

To be clear, I wouldn't mind new actors at all.

I guess merging universes together to effectively retcon the X-Men into always having been there is better than having them be multiversal immigrants. Still not great, but it works.

On the other hand, I feel like the Fantastic 4 can work as a brand new team in their first movie (or at least a team formed post-Endgame). They just need to have "always been there" as regular humans, so Reed and Ben can have their university history with Doom.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...235956081/amp/

Good. I’m glad this wretched schmuck is out of the picture.

Saw Deadpool Wolverine of the weekend, what a fun movie…been a while since we had new MCU content (and squabbler dials) so looking forward to your takes again!!!

Many thanks, friend! Just finished watching myself. Still trying to decide how I want to approach the dials on this one, but I’m hoping to start posting them on Monday, Aug. 5th, maybe.

DP&W was everything I could have hoped for, honestly. I’ve made it clear I’ve never been a big fan of Deadpool’s, but I can’t deny that they’re the ONLY FoX-Men movies made by people who actually like X-Men comics. And this one especially felt like that.

That’s really all I want out of X-Men movies. I just want a sense that the people making these movies actually like the characters and the world they inhabit and have a vested interest in bringing those characters to life.

My partner and I are going this weekend to see it and can't wait! I think this is the first hero movie we've both really been looking forward to seeing since Guardians 3. Seems to be pretty universally enjoyed so far, so here's hoping we feel the same lol

::looks around nervously::

I... uhhh... I'm gonna be in the minority with this one.

::gulp::

Now Squabbler, you wouldn't be thinking of having an opinion different from the majority, would you? We don't take too kindly to that round these parts. You might just wanna reconsider that position, y'hear?

There's absolutely nothing in any of my threads to suggest that I'd ever go against the grain, not a chance!

::ducks for cover::

I’ve always been in the minority with the Deadpool movies. I hated the first one, and I’ve got a begrudging respect for the second one.

The third one did not please me.

My previous grievances with the franchise return here— the R-rating is a cheap excuse for shocking language, violence, and sexual innuendos and deprives the movie of the creative choices a PG-13 rating would’ve forced it to make. That is to say, it would’ve been forced to write actual jokes with set ups and punchlines instead of overlong banter.

True, DEADPOOL AND WOLVERINE is less sexist and racist than DEADPOOL by far, but I genuinely don’t know if this movie passed the Bechdel Test. If it did, it was by the skin of its teeth, with minor lines shared between throwaway characters. There’s also a real debate to be had if Deadpool’s touted pansexuality is used here legitimately or for anything more than shock value.

Let me be clear, I LIKE Deadpool. I have ever since the Joe Kelly run amazed me with its deft balance of humor and pathos. This, however, feels like someone has a crude idea of Deadpool, and that idea mostly comes down to violence and overlong insults. Just like Cable in the previous installment, I think the writing team trebled down on what's toxic in Wolverine's personality without capturing what makes the character special and endearing. Cool that they cameoed several comic-accurate suits, though.



#L219 Deadpool
Real Name: Wade Wilson
Team: Team Player
Range: 5
Points: 50
Keywords: The Void, X-Force, X-Men, Assassin, Mutant, Martial Artist, Soldier

7 11 17 2

7 10 17 2

7 10 17 2

6 10 17 2

6 10 17 2

6 10 16 2

5 10 16 3

5 9 15 3

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Maximum Effort! (The name of Ryan Reynolds' production company): Probability Control & Perplex.
I'm Gonna Fight You Now: Charge & Running Shot.
Nicepool Human Shield: Toughness, Super Senses, and Regeneration.

Original Dial:
https://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showt...8#post12038588

#L220 Wolverine
Real Name: Logan/James Howlett
Team: X-Men
Range: 0
Points: 60
Keywords: The Void, X-Men, Weapon X, Future, Mutant, Past, Warrior

9 11 18 3

8 11 18 3

7 10 17 2

7 10 17 2

6 10 18 2

6 10 17 2

6 10 17 2

6 9 16 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Mutant Healing Factor: Regeneration.
Ok, Bub. Let's Go: Charge & Flurry.
The Worst Wolverine: Blades/Claws/Fangs, and if the result is Wolverine's Damage value or less, the damage cannot be reduced. Wolverine may target more than one character with Blades/Claws/Fangs.

Orignal Dial:
https://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showt...8#post11981528

Sorry for the Squabbler set legacy cards, but this movie had a lethal combination of not impressing me AND using old characters with old tactics. For lack of novelty, we’ll update old dials. Shoutout to Kaden for having the idea some years back!