I, on the otherhand, think you have some great ideas. I see where you are coming from, you are trying to utilize existing mechanics within the game to produce a more accurate representation of the Hulk in how he plays within said game.

I like you ideas. Good job.

Rep to you for thinking outside of the box Tidge.

Also, you can give the figure flying without giving him a flight stand to allow the figure to have the symbol but still look more like we expect the Hulk to look.

Similar to the Origins Blue Beetle, it is easy to bypass flight stands on certain figures, because if you need to "go soaring" it is only a token and remark away.

Simple, so simple.

The flight aspect is the main part I find myself choking on, and most of that is because of the Soaring option that comes with fliers; it wouldn't fit. The range attack aspect would likely mean CCE for at least part of his dial, as most of the casual debris he would fling isn't likely to hit as hard as he does by hand or when directly dirctly clubbing an opponent with a dumpster.

Alternately, the idea of making him both a Giant and a Transporter has been brought up before, but the Giant rules still tend to harm pieces more than aid them - they become bigger targets and can become tied up trying to pass by opposing pieces unless they're Leap/Climbing or Phasing -- or, hypothetically, using HSS.

My distaste for the soaring mechanic is well known. I've long thought that many characters should be given "flight" without "flight stands" specifically to grant characters the "good stuff" that comes with flying, just not the ability to soar.

From my POV: "Flight" is one of those things that the design team (and many of the players) have gotten hung up on...much like "Psychic Blast" can be a trivial way to mimic armor piercing bullets/blasts. For example...There aren't many people that would argue that Wasp doesn't "fly"...but in terms of what she can do in the game (carry people, happily move about "soaring") reflects almost no capability ever demonstrated by the character in comics.

On the other hand, a comic character like Spider-Man regularly demonstrates almost EVERY "rules effect" of flight: he carries people, terrain doesn't affect his movement, he almost never takes "falling knockback damage", he can pretty much always make "ranged attacks", and based on his mid-town Manhattan panels...he is practically "soaring".

You know, Hulk having Doomsday's power, so that he just plain stops taking damage when he "Hulks out" would allow the dial to have the up-front Banner clicks, followed by the full-on Hulkiness. So, maybe 2 clicks up front, with a little Outwit/Perplex, then 1 click of Invulnerability/Doomsday's power, then the rest is the standard Hulk dial. That is, ramping up from Invulnerability/good damage/Green Scar- and Ramaging Hulk-style Leap Climb-type attacks, to Impervious/excellent damage/Charge, to ramping back down to Toughness and Regen/Leap Climb/max 3 damage. And loads of Super Strength, naturally. The weak up-front clicks would even make him a little cheaper, Outwit or Perplex notwithstanding.

Easy remedy and not near an issue as it sounds.

Refer to my post #107 above for my reasoning.

I would agree. Leap/Climb can simulate what Wasp does pretty well. i.e. get around easily, ignore other figures, change elevations. She just wouldn't be able to carry. Figures like that would have to have Leap/Climb their whole dial, but what other power would she have on her movement slot?

You're right, flight has too much built into it. Carrying other characters shouldn't be so closely tied to flying, since giants and really strong characters do it all the time. Transporter kind of addresses it, but goes too far in the other direction, tying carrying to yet another movement type. It's almost as if transporting should be a "modifier" for other movement types (and in this case, giant would be a movement type instead of a damage type).

Ah, sweet, sweet 20/20 hindsight.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing what appears to be a manufacturing error they decided to work around as a solution.

Rampaging Hulk 128
Fortitude 25
Repulsor Shield 25
Rip it Up 20
Shellhead 10
Damage Shield 10
Armor Piercing 10
Protected 8
Nanoarmor 6
Unstoppable 5
Lucky Break 5
Swingline 10
Movethrough 8
Endurance 5
Slippery 15
Haymaker 10
Total 300


LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!! MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE! I present to you, for no reason other than to amuse and entertain in the midst of a power-creep debate with funny boxed-up humour: THE THREE HUNDRED POINT B(R)EAST!!! It is only regretted that it is unique, and you can therefore not use two of them in a 600 point match swapping out Haymakers for ICWO on both...cause then you'd have two wonderfully supported b..easts...

Carry on, as you were, these aren't the droids you're looking for, and all that rot...

Hahah... dude, he can't USE Nanobots, but it's a good try Seriously, what a terrifying figure to have to fight!

Armor Wars Quicksilver showed us the way... flight symbol with no flight stand. The figure can do everything that flight allows with the exception of soaring.

Flight movement symbol gives you the ability to soar, not having a flight stand.

Ultimately, it's because folks don't understand the points formula. And we fear and/or marginalize what we don't understand.

Instead of thinking about what Rampaging Hulk has (which is, admittedly, a lot) think about what he doesn't have:

1. A team ability.

2. A flight stand.

3. HSS

4. Impervious.

5. A respectable AV on his opening click.

6. Range

These are all powers and abilities that add to a character's point cost, and their absence, conversely, is what keeps Rampaging Hulk's cost so reasonable.

Compare to Ultraboy:for two points more, you get two clicks less, but you gain flight, two clix of Imperv (one alongside the coveted 18 Defense), the extremely useful wildcard TA, a starting 10 AV and a Ranged attack option. (See also: Young Superman.)

There's plenty of pure power to be found on Hulk's dial, but at the cost of versatility. He's hardly evidence of "power creep."

... *blink*

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not...Quicksilver was errated. He's a grounded figure, with all the restrictions that entails: limited movement through hindering terrain, no carrying, etc., etc.

Experienced She-Hulk and Vet Thing lose about 20-30 points because of their respective team abilities.

Shazam can get annihilated by Rampaging Hulk and perhaps even Vet She-Hulk because they can put him on his Billy clicks and then later do enough damage to knock him past his hypersonic outwit clicks.

The reason why this Hulk is so playable is because all points are diverted into making him a close combat fighter. Thing and the She-Hulks have team abilities, Shazam has an activation click and some lull spots inbetween, other figures have lower defense value in favor of better reducers or more powers.

And this Hulk can be outsidered to eliminate his close combat power. Yeah, he can deal a lot of damage, but it's a power that can be avoided rather than raw damage.

Oh, and Ultimates Hulk is a giant, he cannot be tked. Jeez.