There are certain powers that are

attack powers. Can only be used in an attack.

All attack powers, running shot, charge, flurry, enhancement, and few others if I forgot them.

Defensive Powers. Can only be used when being attacked.

Invuln, Tough, Impen, ES/D, support, Defend and few others if I forgot them.

Support powers. Can be used at any time.

Outwit, perplex,Probability control, Willpower, and any others if I forgot them.

Everything is seperated into these 3 sections.

By the way hahaha I can edit my post.

You aren't 'using' Invulnerability or Toughness until somebody hits you. They are just asssumed to be always on because it would be stupid if you had to declare their use. No conjunction.

On the Super Strength example, you have to use the object you are hold before you could even declare a CCE attack. This is what makes Bane clutch. Pick up heavy object with Super Strength. What does the opponent Outwit? Super Strength to make ghim drop the object, or CCE? Well, he better have two Outwits because it is going to end being 5 clicks, either way.

If you pick an object with Bane you are giving up your CCE. There is no conjunction in that example. IF your SS gets turned off, then you are still free to use CCE because you are no longer using SS.

This argument is still based on suppositions already supported in the rules.

No figure have that copmbination. Brigadier M brought that up as a what if.

Well, your list is logical.

But where is that defined?

Listen, I understand where everyone is coming from. Yeah, I'm sure we can all agree that all super powers can be further classified into 3 different sections.

But those aren't truly defined anywhere in the rulebook or the PAC for everyone to reference. Because of this, it creates a massive grey area that really cannot be defined.

In fact, the only place that powers are actually defined in such sections are on the PAC.

Now, it's this discrepency that is causing so much confusion.
I'm doing my best to try and get something more definitive.

Well, I guess this also depends on your definition of 'using'

Because technically, you will USE any power on your dial unless you specifically declare that power to be off. This is because all powers are assumed to be ON.

I know I just made up the list. So it would be shown. Every power is in one of those sub catergories. But it has nothing to do with any of this discussion.

Once again, You can't DO anything with Toughness or Invulnerability on your turn, so there is NO WAY it could be used in conjunction with RCE/CCE.

Contrary to what Tsannik said, I don't think we COULD all agree with your divisions, but I won't get into that since, as you say:

The steal energy/CCE may have been hypothetical, but here's one that's not. U Catwoman. CCE and Super Senses on her first 3 clicks. As I understand things, she will have to turn off SS if she wishes to use CCE. This, IMO, is idiotic.

M!

Well, you don't really DO anything with Stealth... on your turn, but it is considered 'OFF' when using RCE/CCE...

Sol, we can go back and forth....
I said I understand where you are coming from. I see both sides of the argument. I'm getting kinda tired of going in circles trying to show you (and others) the other side. I know you see the other side...

We should all be aware of how this should work (as it should be apparent in my posting on page 5 - which does support your view, sol). But there *is* enough of a doubt that is causing everyone here to question what exactly is the ruling.

Trying to convince *me* is irrelevent. Like I said, I will try and get a more definitive entry.

OK, after loosing this post once (stupid 'puter), and catching up on this Pandora's Box of a thread, I'm going to try again.

Lets take a look at RCE on CT Elektra and CCE on Batman. One thing to remeber is that it has been discussed on many a thread before this that using RCE or CCE is focusing all your attention to being able to either hit harder or find the vulnerable spot on your opponent. This is why you cannot use these 2 powers in conjuctions with any others.

Elektra is hiding in hindering terrain using Stealth. On her turn she would like to smack the Scarlet Witch who just happens to be standing 2 squares away. She now has to make a choice by doing 1 of 2 things, does she hit from the saftey of Stealth for 1 click of damage or does she drop Stealth focusing her attention to hitting for 3, but at the same time opening herself up to the possibility of Probability Control?

Much the same Batman has to decide whether he is going to push without exerting himself durring his next attack, or push himself a little bit harder than normal to deal 4 clicks of damage and take a click himself.

With these characters you don't get to play with all the toys at once. You have to pick which toy best fits what your are going for and run with it. Basically its is the equivalent of dealing with Charge and CCE or Sunning Shot and RCE on the same click.

It is my interpretation that any optioanl powers have to be in effect when the action is taken, meaning if you want to use Willpower to not take a click of damage durring a push, Willpower must be active at the start of the action. So in effect if Willpower is active, CCE cannot be. That plus the wording of CCE/RCE on the PAC and the posting by Cheapu are enough to cement this in my mind.

Now what about non-optional powers..... For starters 2 of those powers are Damage slot powers and cannot be on a figure with RCE or CCE (Battle Fury and Shapechange). Steal Energy has been specifically said does not work on the FAQ as it is an attack power (heaven help us if they make a figure with SE and CCE on the same click). the last 3 Energy Shield/Deflection, Toughness, and Invulnerability are passive powers that do not come into effect unless you are being targeted by a ranged attack or take damage. Aside from Pulse Wave there is no way for you to actually have these powers work during your turn, let alone while using RCE or CCE. Last is Super Strength, it is fair to say that if you have an object and are doing a close combat attack you can't add CCE damage to that attack. I would have to say that with that as an example if you have RCE and are carrying an object you either do a regular damage Ranged Comabt attack, or throw the object. Due to the Active Super Strength you would not be able to use RCE.

Everyone keeps referring to that list in the FAQ as if it's somehow the be-all end-all list, when it's only a few examples of how the powers don't interact. The bulk of the confusion seems to be stemming from a couple of discrepancies:
A figure cannot use any powers in conjunction with *CE, but can use other powers normally before or after the attack. However, realistically there are only three powers that can be used at the same time as *CE, since it requires an attack action to do so: Outwit, Perplex, Prob Control (I'll address the Strength problem momentarily). Perplex and PC are Damage stat powers and thus no figure currently has them along with *CE. Outwit may be granted by the Superman Enemy/Wildcard Team ability, but cannot be used by the attacker (and I've made provisions for future Team Abilities in my list below). However someone else may use these powers on the target but not the attacker, except that PC can be used on the attacker. *head hurting*

All the other powers seem to 'turn off' during the attack only to turn back on immediately after the action is completed, which is contrary to the rules that say powers come back on at the end of the turn. So the rules seem to be trying to say that the attacker cannot use any of his powers against a particular target on the same turn he uses *CE, but then say otherwise later. Ouch.

Here's my last attempt at sanity: "A character making a *CE attack may not use any other powers he possesses to affect the target during this turn. In addition, no powers any character (including the attacker) possesses except Probability Control may affect the attacking figure prior to making the attack; these powers may affect the target normally. All Team Abilities function normally."

You want a complete list? Here you are:

Speed:
Force Blast: NA (used to replace normal attack)
Plasticity: NA (affects breakaway only)
Mind Control: NA (used to replace normal attack)
Phasing: NA (only affects movement)
Stealth: NA (no LoF required to you during your attack action)

Leap/Climb: character cannot CCE a figure on different elevation.
Hypersonic: cannot HSS "move'n'hit" and use RCE/CCE; cannot use multi-hit and CCE
Charge: cannot Charge and use CCE
Running Shot: cannot RS and use RCE
Flurry: can only make a single CCE attack

Attack:
Smoke Cloud: NA (move-equivalent power)

Poison: figure cannot CCE a target damaged by attacker's Poison this turn
Steal Energy: character does not receive a click of healing from a CCE attack
Telekinesis: Thrown object damage cannot be increased by RCE
BCF: (d6) BCF damage can not be increased by RCE
Pulse Wave: PW damage can not be increased by RCE; RCE can only hit the target figure
Energy Explosion: EE damage can not be increased by RCE; RCE can only hit the target figure
Incapacitate: may not add a token with RCE/CCE
Psychic Blast: RCE does not ignore target's Def powers
Super Strength: Figure carrying an object may not use CCE

Defense:
Impervious: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Invulnerability: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Toughness: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Energy Shield: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Mastermind: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Defend: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Super Senses: NA (only operates when attacked/damaged)
Regenerate: NA (move-equivalent action)
Barrier: NA (move-equivalent action)

Willpower: character suffers pushing damage if pushed to attack with CCE/RCE

Damage
Outwit: If a character gains the Outwit power by use of team abilities, he may only use it on the target after the *CE attack has resolved. Other characters may Outwit the target normally.

Perplex: The figure may make a *CE attack against a target that has had one or more of its combat values altered by amother figure's Perplex. A figure that has had its own values altered by Perplex may not make a *CE attack this turn.

Prob Control: A figure making a *CE attack may be forced to re-roll the attack by another figure using PC.


And that's it.

Well, I have one small problem with that...

Say I MC you're figure with Stealth and RCE....

Then I attack one of your other figures with RCE (turning off Stealth).

For the rest of my turn... that 'Stealthed' figure is now not-stealthed... my other figures can attack at Ranged.

Theoretically, this would be the same for Impervious and Super Senses.

Somehow, someway...I knew that wasn't it.

OK I should 've explained a little better, that my solution was to provide a "temporary off" loophole for the powers in question. Meaning, you're not required to "turn them off" in the normal sense, only that their effects do not apply during a *CE attack. Going by my list above, very little would be affected by that ruling other than to provide closure to this ugly ugly issue (yes, even uglier than Infinity Wildcard Circle ). By my logic, Stealth is irrelevant to *CE because you cannot be targetted for attack until after your attack is completed. It has no effect during the actual attack. This is why Outwit/Perplex works on the target only, because it would still work even if you decided not to attack with CE.



Besides, if you MC any enemy figure with Stealth I will kick you if you don't turn it off anyway. :D

As I and one other person on this thread have stated, Probability Control can target a character during an attack, meaning CT Elektra could possibly use Stealth and RCE at the same time.

Ok, so if you can't use Willpower with CCE, then why can you use Probability Control with CCE as someone said earlier? If you can use PC(which is a power)with CCE why not Willpower.
Since you have to turn off all optional powers to use CCE, this would lead to the situation after you roll the opponent saying "oh you didn't say that you were turning off phasing, so therefor your CCE doesn't work" as a final note, since what they say in the faq doesn't really go one way or another, I think it is up to the judge running the event until it is officially put into the faq.