Many people are voicing their opinion that the elite Panther probably will be a Dragon's Fury unit. Even though that would be logical, don't be surprised if the elite Panther turns out to be a Stormhammer-, Republic- or Highlander-unit!

Yup. It seems that CJF for MWDA is similar in character to the original JF in Classic Battletech. Anyone remember the LOKI? Massive firepower, terrible armor. The difference here is that the mechs seem to have excellent heat dials as well, as opposed to firing and shutting down like they did in CBT. All I can say is I'm interested. Kinda surprised they got a non clan mech like the Panther, but still....

I just realized that a successful DFA from one of the Yu Huangs can instantly kill the panther (6 primary +2 dfa +1 ruthlessness). Highlander burial anyone?. Tetro must be laughing so hard that the ammo in her mech will explode.

For the tank, well, it is like a mini-mars assault tank with better accuracy and constant damage. like the mars however it won;t see competitive play.

**** looks at JF panther***

CHARGE! CHARGE CHARGE!!

two words, hotshot...

FACTION PURITY!

get over our "perfect army" and realize not every unit in the game is gonna be perfect. and this goes for all of you. if you are that upset with the game, why not make all mech stats the same, all vee stats the same, and all infantry the same. then you cant complain about unbalanced units!

the JF will have subpar tanks. that's okay. it's a COMBINED ARMS THING. mechs ae inherently more powerful than a tank, and should be able to waste them. i think this MBT is a little more on cue to the way it should be. it's on the weak side, but CJF isnt known for having godly tanks....

jheesh....

I wonder if the Panther will have a beak too like the other JF 'Mechs I've seen so far?

The Panther could peck you to death in melee combat.

The stats look alot like the DF except that Df gets IT right away on their dials and not farther in.

@ greyholme-LOL. Hmm. greyholme's Pecker'mech. (Couldn't resist.)
I'll have to remember to pack some bird seed and my Acme Rocket Skates (TM). {Can coyotes apply to the Steel Wolves?}

I for one like the return of the Spiders and Panthers. They were my combined 'mechs of choice back when I played CBT. Cheap, brutal and effective. Line up the Panthers in front, and drop the Spiders behind your opponent. Do you ignore the PPCs, or get your rear armor burned off? Little hammers and anvils.

Well, just my guess, but this being their "Green" unit, so it would be a second line/Garrison Cluster thing with either converted captured (or original SLDF) Mechs... Replacing the PPC with a Clan Large Pulse laser would get you the accuracy (IT) shown later in the dial, and I guess the recklessness would be the pulse (firing until it melts...)... Just my guesses though, never really read up too much on the JF...

It's kind of funny, but everytime new units are previewed, they are uniformly discarded as junk by those who play regularly. Why? Well, it's not really because they are junky units.

It is because of other screwed up mechanics.

How much more useful would some of these be if Mechs charged at their primary speed? If units received a token after being dropped off? If arty was finally and correctly fixed?

The units are not the problem. When they are released, it just becomes obvious how vunerable they are to current screwed up mechanics.

Forunately for those who don't use those tactics in fun games, these units are quite playable for their costs.

There should be two discussions when previews are released. One for serious play.. and one for play in environments where X-drop, massive arty are not used.. where bumperbotless play is standard (or a house rule is used).

For those who are better players, how about giving a critique for those who don't use the tactics that dominate competitive play? Would be useful for those who just want to have fun. :)

fleabitfox

JF mechs arent junk. why?

Superb ranged combat mechs with Jump jets. Position terrain to make a chokepoint, and a building 13.5 inches away. put the gyrfalcon ontop of the building - cant be charged, and +1 to your attack and defence. Can be pogged by arty, but then, it will be anyway.... just take out thier arty with some fast movers and sit pretty, alpha striking everything is sight and jumping down when you need to be repaired. You can get DFA'd, but only from within your alpha strike range.

simple

The late IT is interesting though...

This is what I was thinking. If charge didn't exist, if tankdrop didn't exist, if arty was properly corrected to be the support piece it was supposed to be, if there was no move and shoot period, then this mech would be a useful piece. The game would be back to move OR shoot, and strategy and tactics would make a resurgence, making for a more fun game. In a game where there is no move and shoot, the 8 speed w/ JJ and the 12 range w/ the potential for 8 damage are very respectable, and the 18 defense is not as big a problem.

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Forunately for those who don't use those tactics in fun games, these units are quite playable for their costs. There should be two discussions when previews are released. One for serious play.. and one for play in environments where X-drop, massive arty are not used.. where bumperbotless play is standard (or a house rule is used). For those who are better players, how about giving a critique for those who don't use the tactics that dominate competitive play? Would be useful for those who just want to have fun. :) fleabitfox

Okay, if tankdrop/infantry drop were not used and if charged was not used and it was a "for fun" game, I would pair the Panther up with another mech because this mech makes a good clean-up mech, and has JJ and some real offensive power for extra flexibility. VTOLs will still give this mech fits though. If I used this mech in an army, I would design the army to kill support units off quick and avoid any big mechs. The Panther is just too fragile to engage another battlemech on the front lines. Unfortunately, it is also too fragile to take on infantry, even though it has JJ for the easy damage-dealing break-aways and a ballistic weapon. I would engage this Panther once enemy pieces are weak enough to not be a major threat to it. It is possible to aggressively use the Panther due to its good heat dial and relatively stable stats, but there is a decent chance of it being scrapped into near uselessness in one shot. There is also the option of performing a 5 damage DFA with the Panther, which is very tempting considering its 10 attack (something that just might happen in a "for fun" game).

I heard that the elite panther was a Liao unit and since it was elite, it was basically a more expensive wasp.

While I agree the #1 reason that a mech (that has to stand and shoot) with 18 defense is garbage is because of the charge mechanic, I think in the case of an 18 defense mech that needs to stand and shoot at targets, that it is not the mechanics that still keep the JF Panther/Gyrfalcon from being playable.

The reason being that infantry are a MAJOR threat to them. While any mech with an average defense value usually has nothing to fear from an infantry's firing arc, the JF Gyrfalcon/Panther cannot be within firing range of an infantry piece.

Additionally, fast basers like Hoverbikes and ATVs are severe threats. Not only can they base you, but you have no choice but to try and immediately make a break away roll (thus gaining more heat), whereas any normal mech could ignore it or attack it. Artillery is no longer needed by your opponent to keep you moving and hot, infantry do it just fine.

I'm afraid NOTHING saves these mechs when the lowliest units can harm them AND deny them board space. 120 points for a unit that spends its time trying to stay out of firing/basing range of infantry is too much.

In the case of the JF tank, also mechanics are not the problem with this unit. The measly 2 damage and a 180 arc for 64 points are.

Not possible in a legal tournament, as elevated terrain is not tournament legal. Whether it should be is debatable, though it makes chargebait more playable, it also has potential for serious abuse.

Also keep in mind your opponent controls half the terrain, thus basing an army and strategy completely on terrain placement is dangerous and unreliable.

You know what might actually save the falcon mechs? **** ducks under the table **** > set retirement.

The reason? Well, with set retirement, no hoverbikes can touch this mech while they are in water, no need to fear the Schimit Tank drop, no need to fear the long range arty... and later no need to fear the ATVs coz they are now retired! Arnis will retire too, meaning that this mech actually have a chance!