Yeah... but since your Gamma Bomb was on the chain first, all the stuff that went on after wasn't affected.

Curse that FILO!

Stu: I'll be going gold soon... you better catch up.

You know I do sympathize with your plight, but in a situation like this you have to agree to disagree because not everyone is going to share your viewpoint, no matter how logical it is, or what the results would be.

shimmerize do you have an online store?

I have to say that I agree with evilspider's comments. IN fact, he's even more willing to go out of his way to buy things than I am; I am almost exclusively on-line. My attitude is, if the Local Shop doesn't have an on-line component in order to compete, then that's tough.

As for the comment made earlier by another poster about "have fun playing in your bathtub" - The natural evolution of these games is to play on-line as well. Collect the cards, have bar codes on the back, which then accesses a free (subsidized by Wizkids, of course) on-line play-site - your cards are added to your on-line collection, and you're good to go.

In person playing would still be prevalent, of course, with tourneys and the like.

Arguments in this thread seem to be that stores have higher maintenance costs, and therefore cannot compete with on-line brokers, so it is your DUTY as a GAMER to support the local stores. Of course, I'm not in favor of a local store going out of business. But I absolutely do not feel that I "owe" a store anything beyond my money - this is not a charity, it is not my DUTY to support them. For those who feel it IS a duty, then you are free to do with your money as you see fit. Do not attempt to place some false "ethics" on me; I see no need to spend more money than I have to. Really as simple as that. I'm a cutthroat gamer, and a cutthroat buyer. Those who can compete will succeed, and those who will not, will fail. Harsh, but that's life.



There are many clever ways to do business; those who feel that on-line stores are closing them out of business need to re-evaluate their business plan and take action. Charge for tournaments, with a requirement to buy a booster, perhaps. Have incentives for frequent buyers that do manage to lower the price to competitive levels rivaling on-line brokers. Diversify your sales, that always helps. Have a "if you want to eat here, buy the food here" deal for gamers who want to play there.

IN return, though, provide the buyers with a nice place to play, clean environment, and politeness even in the face of "evilspiders" who you don't agree with. Give them a wide selection. Maybe look for cool prizes that aren't just a new LE. Maybe offer a CUSTOM card or figure, with some nice new art or the data elements mounted on a nice piece of foil or even metal. For figures, how about a Gundam piece, or something from an anime collection? Maybe even a prize that has nothing at all to do with the game at hand - maybe a gift card for $10 or $20 for winning a tourney.

The economy is hard, and asking people to effectively donate money to a local gaming shop, even in drips and drabs now and then, is faulty economics. I'm amazed at this thread, to be honest. Begging is pathetic.

No, it's the customer who keeps gaming in business, only. Not the stores. Without the local shops, the game would not dry up, clever former-store-owners would set up shop as a venue that charges rental fees for a nice, attractive, relaxing space to play games in... someplace nice to hang out. Perhaps sell some boosters "on the side".

If you can't compete with online, then go online. Small shops need to be the fastest on their feet; just like the RIAA is finding out regarding online music, the old business models are no longer viable. What's interesting is that while the RIAA can sue to make back their revenue (because of laws they helped to get passed) there are no laws that say Thou Shalt Buy At Thy Local Store... and so articles like the one posted at the beginning of this thread are made, which are tantamount to begging for money.

You have to realize that your "small shops willing to work out a deal" are not prevalent in New York City. You are talking, perhaps, from the aspect of a small shop somewhere in what we cityfolk call "The Country". Stores here are not willing to cut a deal, not willing to make good deals. In some places, just getting the store owner to admit that his price is out of line with even the posted prices in a collecting guide is like trying to convince the Bush Administration that chopping down forests to stop forest fires is insanity. So realize that in the pedantic finger-waving and false ethical hand-wringing of "you should buy at a local shop! Gaming depends on US!"

It is hypocritical to say 'tough luck' to stores who can't compete, and yet want them around for your tourneys.

and online playing is fine and dandy, but removing the human aspect of gaming is yet another notch in its eventual death.

This is a contradictory statement -by saying 'But I absolutely do not feel that I "owe" a store anything beyond my money' then you admit to owing them your money, which in turn means your owe them your support...



You forget that when these stores who, unlike online stores, support the games and the gaming community, eventually fail, you won't have any games left to play...

So the answer, then, is to charge people MORE money? How does that help?

So the answer is to SPEND more money and charge LESS? How does THAT help?? (prizes cost money, as well - thos LEs you win as prize support? The ones you can't buy in online stores? LGS' have to pay for them...)

Quote

The economy is hard, and asking people to effectively donate money to a local gaming shop, even in drips and drabs now and then, is faulty economics. I'm amazed at this thread, to be honest. Begging is pathetic.

Who's begging? If you feel that being cutthroat and callous is the path you want to walk along, then kudos to you. Some of us, however, LIKE the games we play, and don't want to see them disappear. Frankly, I prefer to shop in a place where I can get a human being serve me, who is polite and friendly, knows my name, chats with me, supports the product I'm buying, and provides me with playing space and prizes. You seem to want the good parts - the tourneys, the prizes, etc - but are not willing to sacrifice at all for them. I find that sort of attitude to be selfish and disappointing, but that's just me =)

Actually, statistically speaking, you are wrong. We need concrete shops, not just online shops - and I'm not just talking gaming now but in general. Without small business enterprises, whe whole Western economical and capitalist system goes even further down the tubes than it already is. And the more one spends all of their time online - shopping, interacting, living - the more detached we become from reality and from being human. This may sound like pseudo-Dystopian BS, but if you take a good, hard look around, you'll see that there is a distinct devolution happening, and it is mainly due to a lazy attitude brought on by technological convenience and reliance on technology. People are fast becoming unable to do ANYTHING without the aid of machines. Which is a dangerous, DANGEROUS prospect. Might sound odd being posted on an internet forum, but heck, if you can't start in your own backyard might as well ot start;)

This is just a small aspect of the overall picture. Put the LGS out of commission and you lose small busniess enterprise, you lose jobs, you lose money movement in the economy, you lose tax income. On the gaming side, you lose game support, you lose purchasing power, you lose tournaments and prize support, you lose human interaction. The online shops realize that the game is no longer cash cow and dump their product. The game stops being made. People stop playing and dump their product. And you're left with a ten-person strong online community to play the game with. May sound fun to you, but not to me.

Diversify. Not hypocritical at all. Think of ways out of the predicament. Tough Luck to those who cannot. Will all venues fail? Of course not, some will succeed. Darwinistic Economics.

No, all I would owe them is my money for the item in question, not any sense of duty to keep spending my money there. If I find a better price at a local store, then I shall buy it there. If I find a better price online, I will buy it online. No fealty, no obligation. Hardly contradictory.


They won't eventually all fail, because something else will spring up to take its place, to fill the vaccuum. The online stores may - or may not - fail to support the games. You assume too much.

Since the problem is income, you have to be able to increase the sense of worth for the same amount, or more. People such as evilspider say that the prices are out of line, and so they go to online sources. You say that the store offers things the online services don't provide. The only way to resolve this is to provide precieved value for money. It doesn't have to be ACTUAL value, but only PERCIEVED. Gussy up the venue area of the store to look like an IKEA showroom, install some dirt-cheap Tigerdirect.com computers for surfing while waiting for a match to begin, or to have 10 cent color printouts from the xxrealms.com pages to support the game, perhaps. It's not charging people more money for the same thing, its charging them more money in a percieved value that sufficiently offsets the online bargains.

Then make your own customs. Give out giftcards. Surely the smart, hard working entrepreneurs out there can think of SOMEthing that offsets the online bargains, yet doesn't decrease their profit margin in any meaningful way. Asking for "Gamer Ethics: Buy From Your Local Stores!" is not the way to do this.

I love the games I play. I'm not callous, I'm cutthroat - they are not the same thing. I go to where I percieve bargains to be, and I play with an aim to win. I am willing to spend money for *percieved* value. IKEA is a good example: cheap furniture, but they make it easy to build, easy to carry, and their showroom floor, stupid names and hip designs make up for the fact that my $195 Aneboda really costs them $20 to make..... Sacrifice simply to keep a store open isn't my style because I'm from New York City. Perhaps in what we city residents call "The Country" (which is anywhere but the main city... even the New Jersey city across the Hudson is classified as "the country") there is more of a personal feel and more of a community feel.

However, this doesn't excuse the fact that such stores need to get with the times. Go Online, Think Out Of The Box, and think up new ways of creating desire in people like me (and evilspider, apparently) to come to the store, and new ways of creating a feeling that we are getting what we are paying for, even if its the same thing. Imposing some false ethical standard on "gamers" is tantamount to begging by my way of thinking, sorry.

Beverins:

Although some of your points are well-made and valid, I don't feel you see the overall picture here.

Online CCG gaming would not exist without real-life gaming. Maybe eventually in the future companies will just make 'virtual' cards that you use online but that defeats the whole point of a 'COLLECTIBLE' card game.

Online stores that sells CCGs would not exist without the local game stores. There is no way a CCG would be popular without the local stores so there would be no demand for the product. Thus, no market for the online store.

Seems like many of the people who disagree with Kergi's article have never ran/owned/managed their own store or never got to know a store owner and what they go through. Economic models are fine, but you will find that in the 'collectible gaming market' there is more than just 'supply, buy and consume'.

Again... like I stated in many of my previous posts... no one here is DEMANDING that you buy EVERYTHING from a local store. We are just suggesting that you try to support it (if it is, of course, a reputable one), whether it be monetarily or with your presence in tournaments, casual games, demos... etc.

Just like evilspider said we can't know him without being him... then you guys can't really know how hard it is to run a local game store until you do.

Which is why store owners need to get their head out of the sand and play the game. The old rules do not apply anymore, and a store owner has to create as much percieved value as they can. The item itself is no longer good enough.

As for the Dystopian "BS". With the coming Peak Oil and Global Warming predictions (some have them coinciding), there is more truth to that than anything. The reliance on oil and technology will not be helped, however, by engaging a grass-roots false ethical "gamer responsibility" to support the local store. The responsibility rests solely on the store to cause their own revenue.

Just for the record I never once said it was easy to run a store, I honestly admire those who do it, because without ever running a business just from common sense I can tell you ordering supplies, knowing what will sell and won't paying employees, what to do when no one is buying, dealing with distriputers, dealing with competition, etc its enough to make ones head spin.

Now you say no one says I have to buy all my stuff, and when I did say I buy some from the store, but get the bulk online to keep costs down on my budget I was pretty much vilified as the reason for the downfall for western civilization ( a bit exaggerated but accurate nonetheless). One person even went so far as to say I can't be that broke, which simplifies my situation in the same way you say people are simplifying being a store owner.

I feel for everyone who is feeling the pinch of this horrible economy be they store owner, or costumer. Hopefully things will get better and we can stop this idiotic bickering and play some friggin games

Also as a point of note

Look at Barnes & Nobles many of their stores have computers and let you order on-line at their stores from their website. they have merged an on-line experience with the brick and mortar experience.

I have seen some comic shops who use a computer in the store so that people can browse through their inventory and order books they want that the store doesn't have.

Instead of thinking of On-line buying as the enemy incorporate it into your business model.

evilspider:

Yes... you are correct and I should have posted support of your posts that stated as much. I think that conversation went a little downhill because of the emotional response to your other comments and then of course, your responses to their comments.

Although maybe others believe that buying a few boosters here or there, buying sodas or buying some supplies isn't really 'supporting' your store... I feel otherwise because EVERY little bit helps. Just by being there and playing the games causes others to frequent the store. Which also means more possibility of casual draft games which aside from scheduled tournaments is a nice revenue stream.

I don't, however, support name-calling and pointless bickering of which many can be accused of in this thread (except myself of course because I am all-knowing and all-seeing).

What this thread does prove in the end (just by the amount of posts and views) -- is that we all basically feel that we should (not HAVE to... we are free-will beings) help support the local game stores and the game itself... but not put ourselves in the poorhouse (although some will put themselves in the poorhouse anyways... hehe).

Erick your right things did go downhill pretty quickly

thank you for a level headed and fair observation, both on the subject of the article and people's reaction on this thread.

Again... different product, different sales models. Some stores are perfect for having an online presence. B&N had to go online to compete with Amazon but in many cases can't. And B&N has the buying power to heavily discount online sales.

Local game stores do not.

I think you will find it difficult to find a SMALL business-type store that can compete with a wholesaler online.