That's the thing, the plan worked his WP didn't go crazy, and Superman didn't like his uncontrollable powers. The insane things about Batman's contingency plans are not simply how well they could work but how well they DO work by incorporating the reactions of those involved. If Kyle had realized he was simply told he was blind, then everything would have been fine. But he DIDN'T.

Well here is the Long and Short of It:

Superman > Sythectic KyprtoNite that makes his Skin transparent to Sunlight Goes directly into his muscles, making him so strong he wouldnt do anything for Fear of hurting someone)

WW> Tiny Thing in Brain making her think she was fighting someone, but she really isnt and will keep fighting till her Heart gives out.

Flash > Bullet that Vibrates at his Most common Frequency, which causes him to go in to light Speed Seizures.

Aquaman > Fear Gas + Water = GG

MM> Tiny Nanites that make him burst into flame when in contact with Air. ( I am pretty Sure his weakness to Fire is gona now)

Platic Man > Frozen Solid and Busted apart.

Kyle > put ring on his finger while he is asleep and suggest that he is blind till he blinds himself. (also Prob wouldnt work on Hal, for some reason or such)

I think thats All of them.

That just seems really Careless for Batman to put so much at risk on the plan that this is how they SHOULD react. What If Superman still tries to help people, and accidently kills someone like Metallo or something, Superman would breakdown and Batman would Freak even worse.

Kyle(and Wally to a lesser extent) are always seen as the kids playing with the grown ups. Kyle get Oan traing Right away (also Reckless on the part of the gaurdians) He easiliy could have just lost control (which I believed happened and thats how he got the LOA out of his apartment, massive unfocused WP)

Those were supposed to be last resorts. He would have never tried to implement them on his own (I'm pretty sure he used some type of mental trigger to forget them, in fact) unless there was more danger in letting the berserk superhuman continue to rampage.

He never intended to actually use any of those, short of some type of major league mind control.

The best part of Tower of Babel was, after the other heroes had found out that these were Batman's plans (heavily paraphrased):

Batman: I'm going to stop Ra's, and you're going to help me.

Supes: Why should we do anything to help you?

Batman: Because, right now, Ambulance drivers can't read street signs.

If Batman had enough time and a good reason to do it, he could bring down anybody in the DCU. He's still a squishy little human, but he's probably the scariest guy in the universe.

Wow, okay, I have a few people to respond to. I can see the reasoning that the books get new fans into comic books and they are good for that. You guys have made those points quite well. However, I have to agree with MadTitanFan in the content of the books. I do see the Ultimate's line as being shocking for shock's sake. I am not from the 60's and I hated the comics code authority, but still, there are times in the books, in my opinion when they go over the top for no need. Not all of the Ultimate line is guilty of this, and not all the time, but the books I have read have been guilty of this in my opinion.

Batshido, yes, I know from which you speak. X-men is probably the worst offender for turning off new readers to it. I used to collect it for crying out loud, but I have no idea what is going on over there now. On top of that buying the back issues would bankrupt a small European nation.

Profparm, I have read the first um, three storylines of Ultimate Fantastic Four. Unfortunately I did not read anything beyond the Negative Zone storyline. I did however enjoy what I read of that book. Of the Ultimate books I have read (I have not read an issue of Ultimate Spider-man and so can not comment on that) it was the best retelling that I have seen. It took stories that were one or two issues in the original run and turned them into five issue arcs. This made it so you could get a feel for the characters better. Plus Reed was not a child abuser or something... Sorry, I could not resist.

So I suppose in summation I would have to say that I see where you guys are coming from in your arguments. You make good points for the existance of the Ultimates line.

Oh, and in comic books and soap operas, no one ever truly dies.

I don't remember who said it (probably Lex) but in one issue of JLA whoever was trying to take them down said to take down the JLA you have to take down one key person first. His assistant said, "Superman" and he said no, "the Bat." Batman is the true leader of the JLA.

Batman May have Plans upon plans by they all depend on what these SuperPowerful Metas will do. Thats What makes Batman abig Leaguer, the amount of Balls it take to Tell Superman to do something and sit there waiting for him to do it.

Batman could take down the League cause he is written well while Doing it. He gets Written Well to show How he can hang with the Big leaguers, this is also why some people with less Spectacular Powers Hang up there cause they are Written well (or Poorly) and they do things out of the Ordinary.

What happens when someone with a Brain, Mind Controls Superman??? He flies in at the Speed Of Light and Flips a City Upside Down. There Arnt many plans agaist that, although me and some freinds believe that Gothan has a thin lvl of Lead Protecting a layer of Kryptonite thats under it, to prevent City Fliping. The only hero I can see Batman Being right about All the time Is Captain Marvel, cause Billy is so predictable its kinda sad, but he also seems to get Mind Controled alot....

So the lesson is Is you see A streak of Fire in the Sky that Distorts reality dont Run, Dig to the Bottom, that way when its flipped you will still be on Top.

The only thing I dislike about Superman is his alterego. People can't tell that he is the "SAME GUY!".

Other than that no complaints.

My vote would have been Fiddler, but they killed him off in the Villains United mini.

I feel that the only difference between Bruce Wayne and Victor Von Doom is Bruce's compassion. Strip away that compassion and you have a lot to deal with.

Too many pages to read through and well...

What about Mr. Fantastic? What's so fantastic about it? Nothing.

Now That I Think about it, I have only seen Reed get "hurt" once and thats when Doom scared up his face with magic. I mean everyone else getst hurt all the time, Reed never evn breaks a Sweat. I think there is something hes not letting on, like being Invunrable, as that would make Ben feel stupid for all the times reed told him your the only one who can take a hit from the Hulk now get out there.

I seem to recall that Reed Richards lacks internal organs, at least in the sense that we look for them in normal humans. This is what allows him to make himself very skinny and flat. He also reflexively moves out of the way of virtually every attack.

That said, Reed's primary superpower is his brain. The guy can invent anything and solve every problem. He is, effectively, the Batman of the Marvel U. He's just alot better at playing with others. :)

It's all that rubber, it traps the heat in. :p :laugh:

I heard from a friend that Flash can vibrate (ahem) things until they explode. Anyone heard of this?

All of a sudden, your dislike of the Ultimate universe makes a lot more sense!

Spider-Man is easily the best of the bunch (though even I will admit the Carnage story arc plot point, which I won't say exactly what it was but anyone who's read it knows what I'm talking about, was unnecessary in my opinion).