Look we've gotten far enough off topic.

Show me proof the Artifacts are broken. Show me. Go ahead. So far you have given me...nothing. So far, you still haven't proved the Artifacts are the source of the problem.

@Wiiman: Don't start anything here. I have enough to get you at vs.tcgplayer, don't make me start here too.

Ok. Proff.....err....proof:

Quicksilver, Inhuman by Marriage. Is he broken? No. Why? Cause even though he gets to recover for Free doesn't mean anything. Cards like Fatality, Flawless Victory can stop that. As soon as he gets stunned, boom! He hits the KO'd pile. Now, with the Artifacts? He's just plain nasty. A guy who can ready for Free + ATK/DEF pumps that also give him Flight and Range?! That's insane!!!!!!!! Readying for free is not THAT bad but with cards like the Artifacts, it's hell on earth for the opponent.

Punisher, Gun's Blazing. Do I need to go on? I mean, honestly? The guy can be equipped with basically everything!

Oh, and what's up between you two? I thought ya'll were friends. Or does this have something to do with the Chronos Dawn/Lunar Dusk thing....oh I'll just butt out.

What about Tommy Ashton's Quickie deck that ran no artifacts? Does that not prove the artifacts arent the bigger part of the equation?

I'd like to challenge this imparticular argument. Since I have more first hand knowledge of Quicksilver, I'll start with him:

Quicksilver definitely doesn't need the fate suit to make him broken, he just is broke. Fatality is all well and good but by turn 4 the game is either over or extremely close to over. That and, a better "to make your point" card would've been Absolute Dominance. Remember that old two cost ongoing from DCR? Poor card. Anyway, you might not draw it, and Quicksilver and Moloids are the only match-ups where the card is good.

Just look at the 12 character deck. In Silver it just gets better because of all the "for the turn" pumps. Look at what happened without the artifacts in Modern, they just added more pumps and it worked out well enough. If they're so paranoid that the opponent has tricks just run your other drops into their character and double slam the face, the Quicksilver player has the pumps, might as well use them.

Again, the Fate Set is 3 cards, without search power, you won't get the entire thing. Typically people play more than 1 copy of each. Lets say the average Quicksilver player plays 2 copies of each and 3 copies of Helm. That's 7 cards. Now, they also play 3-4 Dr. Fate's Towers. For arguments sake lets say 3. That makes the fate suit 10 cards of their deck. And to reliably get it out every game, they're gonna need more support for it than that. The fate set isn't broken on Quicksilver for sure, Quicksilver's interaction with other cards are more problematic.

For Punisher:

The Fate set, once again, takes up all those in deck slots. I pray you're using those 10 slots for SOME good cards to help your deck in some way. Punisher is definitely a good card, don't get me wrong but, Fatality is semi-similar to this and even though he's a powerful card, unless he's becoming a new EOME target (which seems like a good idea...) I don't see him being used a ton outside of Marvel Knights, which do need a boost. Although I definitely think having some sort of stamping might've been nice.


Coolexplosion

So if we ban Quicksilver what stops Slipstream from taking his place. The only thing I see is that it isn't legal outside of Golden. It could see a reprint but I doubt it.

Quickie is on two, Slipstream is on three. Random is also on three, but Random costs a bit more.

Now back to my Artifact statement:

Quickie has proven to be broken without the artifacts.

Random has proven to be broken without the artifacts.

The Artfiacts have never done anything by themselves in a generic deck. If I toss the artifacts in my GK/BoP deck, are you saying I will kill any Quickie deck? Highely unlikely. I can't even gaurantee I'll pull the artifacts.

Going off on turn 3 instead of 2 doesn't hurt that much. A lot of players that miss quicksilver on 2 just drop him on 3 and still win majority of the time.

Quicksilver is better.
No one plays Golden Age.

Caveat: People play Golden Age, but obviously not in tournaments, so they can just agree to not use Quicksilver. Problem solved.

Wow...one of the best written responses I've seen in a long while. Kudos coolexplosion.

ummmmm. no.

Ok, I've tested the deck and it just isn't as consistent as quickfate. The reason quickfate was so good was because it went off so early, on turn 2 you could be swinging in for 22 or more with a fair amount of ease. Random requires a lot more to go off, including multiple characters, cards in hand, all the fate artifacts on him because doing it with out them doesn't work as well as you might think, and that random usually gets off on turn 5.

As for comparing and saying that quicksilver isn't broke or anything let's take a look at his power.
Free>>> Ready quicksilver. Use this power only once per turn and only if you control no face down resources.
Speed queen had something similar but she got -1 atk for every face up resource your opponents control and can't cause breakthrough. The fact that quicksilver's condition is so easy to control allows him a versatility that other characters don't, hitting two face up resources on turn 2 is no big deal in the least. He is powerful, but used in a way intended, for extra attacks and such, thus I don't really find him to be "broken". The fate suit maybe but again it's working as intended, a power engine, and if you're gonna build a deck around abusing that engine then I say do it. Remember, they did have to errata the rules on equipments because of the fatesuit though.

Not having read the whole thread, I may be making a fool out of myself here... but isn't it fairly obvious that the Fate Artifacts and Quicksilver are both broken? And isn't QuickFate ridiculous precisely because it is able to maximize both of these broken cards?

Quicksilver won a PC by himself, without Artifacts.

Artifacts have not won a PC. Any dedk that has won a PC with the artifacts has used a ridiculously deck expensive engine to get them. For all the trouble they are worth they should do something great.

How to make Quickie great? Put two Crackshot's in your row? Hardly fair.

Are you talking about the one where Quicksilver was in an unwinnable position against the Moloid deck, but the guy conceded for tax reasons?

Fate artifacts are deck intensive, to be sure, but doesn't Quicksilver require around twenty or so turn-long pumps to work? If anything, doesn't the fact that the PC-winner could only fit twelve characters in his build prove that Quickie is more deck intensive than Farts? And I could have sworn Checkmate decks could get away with one copy of each artifact and one or two towers.

I think you are oversimplifying things. You need a whole bunch of Crackshot-like effects in your deck to make Quicksilver consistently great. If you're going to go with the "deck intensive" argument, consider this:

Take a random combat-based deck (something like Avengers reservist, or maybe MKO). Try to squeeze the Quicksilver engine into it. Then try the same thing with Fate Artifacts. If Quicksilver is indeed less deck-intensive than Fate Artifacts, then it should be much easier to add Quicksilver goodness to pre-existing decks and lose little to none of the power.

So the decks that HAVE won PCs with the Artifacts won in spite of the artifacts, not because of the artifacts?

And the 12-man Quicksilver deck wasn't a ridiculously deck expensive way to make sure that Quicksilver could work as "well" as he did without the artifacts?

PC Sydney combined both ... when Artifacts are legal, they will be played with Quicksilver, because Quicksilver without Artifacts in a format where Artifacts are legal is not as good as Quicksilver with Artifacts.

PC Indy 2006 was won by the deck that used the Fate Artifacts + big bootied Secret Society characters to be bigger than most other people could get to.

So, when Quicksilver wasn't legal, the artifacts won a PC, when the artifacts weren't legal, Quicksilver won a PC. When both were legal, they worked together to win a PC. [Except for the Golden age where they didn't break the top 8].

They are "tied" for who is more teh borken. They didn't really make dents in Golden Age, and both are now in Silver together with MVL legal.