Against Omni, that's a meta/preference thing.

Typically, I enjoy aggressive control elements in Curve-Control decks (like Death of a Dream or KO effects or Only Human) because you are looking for something that will by you an extra turn. Conversely, I pick reactionary elements in Curve-Aggro decks (like Omni or PA) because Omni is very efficient if you get stalled for turns and PA usually preserves your resources allowing for you to continue your offense.

Admittedly, it's been awhile since I played OH as it seemed to get pushed out for PA/Omni. But I do feel it has a place.

On GS, the problem is that if you are averaging +1.4 on your rallies you are netting -0.6 because it -2 cards (the team-up and the discard) to play. That's why I say, I'll play it if I need the team-up, but rarely like to play the second without setting it up. Because if I need the team-up, it's only -1 card, and so on average I'm up for the play (+0.4). If I don't need the team-up, I'm -2 which would mean that I'm down for that play(-0.6) and overall (-0.2).

Knew about Shift, but did not know about Death of a Dream. Good to know. Another thing about Death of a Dream is that you can have it replace itself. So at worst it still functions as card draw.

Caliban is great. I don't know if I would play it on turn 4 though. Also he's fine to shift into play late if you are running First Class since you'll need a body to exhaust for that. One of the big things I am making sure about in my X-Factor deck is to have enough 1/2 drops to make sure I can Mobilize on 3 for him if necessary.

To be honest, I've never ripped 3 characters off the top even when I've played Losing the Argument. But I suppose that's just luck.

And in retrospect, I don't think the average draw off of GS can be 1.4.

Assuming you run a 30/30 split, it should be (odds of successful first rally) + (odds of successful first and second rally) + (odds of successful first, second, and third rally) = (0.50) + (0.50)(0.50) + (0.50)(0.50)(0.50) = 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.125 = 0.875 I'm pretty sure that's right.

The card is plenty good if you are running X-Factor cards, but right now I'm far from committed to using their support. And I really just haven't had enough success rallying to justify going the full four without LTA.

Losing the Argument is just a garbage card in the deck; there are so many better engines. Gov is more about setting everyone up "on team", it just happens to have one of the best "draw a cards" that's been on a teamup to date. I expect 1 character to rally to my hand; if I end up with more, great (I've rallied up to 3 before several times, I've also rallied 0 several as well). It's there because it is efficient digging; and, more importantly, teams you up. If you're only playing X-Factor, I certainly would play 0, not 4... without the teamup aspect, it's not good enough to "make the cut".

As to Only Human, I like this in decks with recursion, and that's it. I've had it played against me, I've seen it run in decks, I personally find it "overrated". Does anyone else have this general perception?

Caliban is a meta call... right now I play it because the meta has so many engine decks that it "shuts down", and beast was being unimpressive for me (at first it was "forge or nothing, but as more Black Box / control decks come out, Caliban starts to become better).

Oh, and the average is 1.4 in my deck, but I play less than 30 characters :).

Wow, I'm glad I got me 2 playsets of caliban(both versions,lol) to prepare for the craps storm that's about to come down in the meta. Although there are more characters that we have to look out for in this set, I think he is the most useful out of everyone(besides mesmero). I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of these people that I'm about to list:
Caliban
Mystique(both 1 and 5 drops)
Mesmero
Cable 2 drop
Boomboom
Sinister 1 drop
Beast(both 2 and 4 drop)
Iceman(both 1 and 3 drop)
Gambit 6 drop
Random(not sure but he seems good)
Time broker(to me he is mad good)
sage

Can any say its time to tool box?

have you tried prof x 1 drop from star jammers?

Here's my list:

4x Layla Miller, Butterfly
4x Rictor, Depowered
4x Beast, Wild and Wooly
4x Vision Earth 10101
2x Iceman, Jack Frost
3x The Captain, Can't Remember His Name
1x Cyclops, Man of Action
2x Black Manta, Underwater Marauder
1x Polaris, Back in the Fold
1x Human Torch, Fiery Friend
1x Professor X, World's Most Powerful Telepath
1x Koriand'r <> Starfire, X'Hal's Fury
1x Cyclops, Mutant Messiah

4x Ultimate Nullifier, One Way Trip

4x Mobilize
4x Government Sponsored, Team-Up
4x Concussive Force
4x Omnipotence
3x We Can Rebuild Him
3x Pathetic Attempt
1x Have a Blast
1x Death of the Dream

2x Fall's Edge

Thoughts?

Seems very sexy and abuse Government very nicely. You ever think about Cable > Cyke? Do you have any trouble drawing Government Sponsored? If I was using government to get around loyalty like that I think my build would like a lot like that. Also how does a normal game go with a deck like that? Also why no first class?

I actually did similar with the toolboxing, but I specifically avoided loyalty-based characters (lest people keep killing your dreams).

I run:

0 1-drops

4 Forge
4 Caliban

4 Iceman
1 Sabertooth

3 IronMan
1 Siryn
1 Cyclops

3 Lex Luthor
4 Rogue (Exiles; technically my 1 drop)

1 Polaris
1 Deathstroke the Terminator

1 Magneto, Master of Magnetism
1 Jean Gray

1 Cyclops

1 The Beyonder

4 Government Sponsership
4 Mobilize
2 Anti-Registration Act
2 Reset
4 First Class
3 Cracking The Case
4 Savage Beatdown
3 The "X" factor
3 Omnipotence

You'd be amazed how many decks just cease to operate once Lex Luthor is in play... I learned this while experimenting with an awful IG deck. He may be the best card vs the current environment. When in doubt, other controls never stand a chance against him.

I think Black Manta is worth the leap of faith though; being able to constantly spam your Concussive Force seems ridiculous.

I mean, it's just compartive; do a list of the number of decks (this one included) that simply can't do anything if Lex Luthor is in play. He has a higher toughness and no loyalty requirements. It's tough to say; you can't complain too much about Garth either :). I just think the format has enough payment powers that make people fold if you eliminate them that Lex is generally more powerful.

I also noticed you have no agressive cards. While this was my first thought as well, the deck really does get into situations where there are guys needing to be "taken out", even if that's not your primary goal. Plus, nothing is better on recursion than Savage :).

It's also worth noting that Government Sponsership will not give The Captain affiliation; so even though he's worse in most other ways you may want to stick with the X-Factor version. If you are tiptoing loyalty, you should probably also put in some Anti-Registrations (helps keep rictor hidden too).

Finally, contrary to my original belief, I don't think the "Vision" engine is worth it. People do play caliban, and that makes 7 cards dead. And things really suck when you DO draw the We Can Rebuilds without the Visions. I was having a ton of consistancy probelms with this, so I cut that engine (at first I thought it was the best thing ever :)).

I'll definitely add Lex Luthor - I really like Magneto too (wow strong 2004 haha). I have to disagree about Vision though. That's like Frankie Raye in my experience - Layla + Vision! - and I haven't had too much trouble running into Caliban lately.

Has Caliban been that bad for you?

Government Sponsored does't give the Captain an affiliation?

Edit: Wow, I just noticed your list does't have Concussive Force? Is Iron Man that good?

For your amusement - me VS exiles.

Game 1: I spend the first four turns sifting to hit nullifier, nothing comes out, I get double Mariko'd. Turn five I stick double Omni on Mystique and get Black Man. Mariko comes out one more time and I die.

0-1

Game 2: No Nullifier in hand. I end up with Iceman on three - which is too slow! - but I do peel Nullfier on four.

On the flip side he presses out, Blink, Mystique, Shadowcat, Mariko, Elsiee Dee, Miguel, and Proteus. #### Billy Zonos...

He has one Mariko only though; five I underdrop Captain with a Nullifier. I stifle Panoptichron - I'm undervaluing this has an Omni target, #### lets them recycle Mariko.

Turn 6 is a repeat of turn four! Except he has three Marikos!

0-2

Wow this deck is so hard to beat. Especially Mariko.

What do you guys think about Kory 5? That and starbolts could control exiles a reasonable amount.

Yeah, Caliban was bad; and honestly I had games where I "just missed" the Vision and sat there with We Can Rebuilds... it sucked. Plus, I honestly needed room for more "active" cards; even if you pull off the combo, it's draw 2-discard-2, not like the Frankie line where you had sick #s of ways to make it "free cards".

As to Exiles, I'm kind of the same way; I've more or less accepted Exiles as the "unbeatable deck" for now... and it doesn't even sound like he did need tricks like the 3-cost plot twist where you discard a 3-cost card to give all your 3-drops +3. It can get ugly fast; the fact you made it to 6 is a testement to some good defense; usually it kills on 4-5 :(. Omni on Panc is just a little too late, and even in a standard situation they can just beat down with their army of 3-drops.

Concusive force just isn't what I'm looking for in a plot twist. If I was to play a card like that I'd play Doom/Mystical Paralysis, since that lets you select the target. But in general, yes, Iron Man is that good; in a box he's the best 4-drop I could find, since recovery effects are extrodinarily powerful in a deck like this.

My version is more set up to take on other stalls; the basic engine is enough to take out general weenie decks (Shield/Avengers etc). As to Exiles, this version is worse than my F4 version for beating them, and even that version just managed to consistantly stall to 6. That version used Franklin/Medkits for a good bit of life gain.

Yeah, this is probably a separate thread but jeebus! They really need to make it so you can negate those payment powers. Even if you can Omni shift dorks, they can still probably kill you with their onboards I reckon...

COME ON EXILES ARENT THAT GOOD NOW ARE THEY

but seriously im under the impression that some form of life gain deck/caliban can put a wrench in the exiles game plan...

i just havent figured it out fully yet