Slotting the pre-AoD units is GREAT fun. We even allow Uniques to have pilots and while there have been some very interesting combination, the higher point cost has always balanced things out. I would reccommend that everyone try it at least once just to spice things up a little.

Cheers,:)

Goreb

It seems to me that the mech is overcosted, unless you plan on having a more stable dial and/or colorful dial after taking some hits. If you plan for the stats to go similar as the existing Vixen, 150 is expensive even if you place 4 vent.

As for the pilot... well... due to the restrictions, I think it should be at 35 or a bit less.

And I think putting a 'discount' on what the pilot should cost must be implemented for factioned pilots. How else could anyone playing pure compete with all the GS and mercs around that get all the attention?

Tried it at my venue in unrestricted tournament.

I ran two SC Sun Cobra's with Pulse and a 2/2/1 pilot on each. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from an inch away that day! Joyous fun it was!

Badbird- Not sure which one you were talking about:
Gyrfalcon- I found at Troll and Toad
Dial database- www.mwrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52066

Oddly enough, the first time I ever tried slotting older 'mechs was also with a pair of SC Sun Cobras (one with Arzu & IT, the other with Dot and Pulse). I hopped the pair up onto a building and with the +2 E-range FP they were absolutely devastating. The dice can be a fickle ally at times and it would seem that you were not in her favor for your game. Piloted and geared SC Sun Cobras are simply sweet. I would suggest trying them again before shelving the strat.

Cheers,:)

Goreb

Everyone talking about custom mech this and sloted units that got me thinking, what if i take the main dial from Seka's Pride and clip it on to the base and heat dial of Jiyi Chistu, myself the pilot 221, IT card. Any objections?:devious:

Sebastian- Thanks man, I appreciate the input. Maybe I will beef him up a little with heavy armor for 2 clicks

Your combination ends up being a pimped out Shiro in Medium package for about 50 points less than where it should be. If I were your opponent, the only way I'd allow it is if you jacked the cost since you are removing the only (balancing) weaknesses of the Gyr (damage and DV) for no added point cost. A more reasonable lower-dial-substitution would be from a SS Sun Cobra. You'd still want to jack up the cost some (~20) due to being able to dish decent damage at sick range, but this unit would be much easier to sell to your opponents and the SS Sun Cobra's dial suits the CJF paradigm reasonably well.

Cheers,:)

Goreb

Sadly my fellow players shot down that idea even before i could post it, I was going to work out the proper point value according to the database but decided not to bother. I don't have the SS Sun Cobra, i was just thinking what mechs do I have that has energy primary and balistic secondary and that would be really scary if i just clip their dial on to the gyrfalcon, because the heat dial, range and vent is awesome already! Im already hated for using SAD now and then, so needles to say this idea wil remain on paper:)

Hail Trothkin,

After several battles fielding the venerable Hellbringer (Loki to the freeborn) I wish to open discussion as to the pros and cons of a Exp. Pulse armed Timberwolf Mk. IV (Mad Cat to the freeborn) versus the Hellbringer.

While the Hellbringer has better speed, vent rating and lower cost it is here that the advantages end. The Timberwolf boasts a FAR more stable dial as well as good defensive SE at the top of the dial and with Exp. Pulse it does as much damage as the Hellbringer.

I am interested in the thoughts of my fellow warriors regarding these two designs.

Cheers,:)

Goreb

See, the problem is you're comparing a geared mech to a non-geared mech. What you should be looking at is an X-Pulse Mad Cat vs. a Decoy geared Loki. You don't get to say 'with gear it has all the offense and more defensive gear' when you don't equip available defensive gear on the competitor.

So now you have two mechs with equal damage and DV SEs and you're comparing the relative worth of Evade to the statistical domination of the Loki. Interestingly, the Mad Cat is a more offensive mech, because it keeps the gear for potentially all the clicks whereas the Loki's pulse can be shot off. With that exact same logic the Loki is a better defensive mech because Decoy will last the dial.

In the end the Loki is still better. The Loki's DV doesn't depend on Evade/Decoy and isn't vulnerable to being completely negated by gear, PCCs or close combat. The Loki has better heat and statistical dominance.

Not that I have an opinion or anything. ;)

Very good points Highdancer. These two are a much better comparison.

While none can deny the dominance of the Loki, there is certainly something to be said for the Mad Cat whose dial is much more stable than the Loki's allowing it to take a hit or two and then dish it right back. The Cat also has an extra click of life.

Cheers,:)

Goreb

The problem is that a 20 DV (19+Pilot who isn't Ryohara) sort of invites the enemy to get right up close and personal with everything. It does well against tank drops, but infantry and mechs (dear God especially mechs) look at a MCIV as a nice, juicy pinata. It had better have some stability cause it's going to get hit early and often. ;)

Now, can you work to reduce this vulnerability? Yes, yes you can. You can deploy a whole lot of tricks to keep the MCIV's base clean. But that's the difference between the Loki and the MCIV. The MCIV sort of demands a particular army build and tactical deployment. The Loki doesn't. The Loki's much more flexible because it can play ranged, it can play melee, it can play Mozart with a large enough piano. The MCIV, not so much.

Let me repeat: the MCIV isn't bad. Heck, it's downright good. In the right army with the right player? Nightmare. But the Loki doesn't need the right army or the right player. The MCIV is very good. The Loki is awesome.

If I may drop in here, in my opinion both of you are correct, the MC has a nice stable and long dial and the loki does have the better stats when you compare them both as geared mechs. Here is where my diiference in opinion comes in, i've never used these mechs for the same role, only once have I put gear in the MC (Inferno flamers just for the fun of it). I am partial to veteran units myself but that is besides the point, I ussually just put a 221 pilot in the MC and with the 360 arc like to run it straight into the middle of his army and do as much damage for as long as possible (lone brawler sort of) while the rest of the army moves into position. The few times that I have run the Loki it wasted everything (watching a HD loki fail a assault on it and blasting the daylights out of the davion the next round was awesome) but ive never played it unsupported and never without decoy. Conclusion is with my style of play the MC is cheaper but I dont compare the two because I dont use them for the same job. I know thats not what the discussion is about but I thought looking at it from a different angle might help.

Interesting points ubershep. The thing I don't like about running my heavy (likely the only one in my build) into the midst of my enemy is that it will likely go down before it has a chance to inflict enough damage to warrant the action (though you may have had experience proving otherwise). My strategy often involves advancing my units in a line with overlapping fire arcs for maximum flexibility, but that's just me. When you run your MCIV into the middle, what units are you 'getting' into position to support?

On the topic of heavies, when and where do you use the Vulture or the Thor (had to ask).

Cheers,:)

Goreb