Okay, who stretched out the forum?

that's a huge loki........

"E, V Black Adam -- HyperSonic is VERY valueable. But a low defense and no Range hurts him too. One Outwitter that costs half his points ruins his whole day. (At least Nightcrawler has a high DV to back him up.)"

That's why I prefer JSA Shazam! His HSS is like having range, his JSA TA allows him to carry a higher defensive valued wildcard fig for a boost and his mid-dial Outwit makes him dangerous if he is knocked off his HSS. Plus Exploit Weakness makes basing him lethal.

"R Steel -- Yeah. Hawkeye definately put this guy out of a job."

2 major advantages to using Steel over E Hawkeye (since the vet is too expensive) - much, much longer life and can shoot out of adjacency. Hawkeye is just too easy to KO for his points. Unless you're fighting an all stealth team (which usually top out at a 6 range) Hawkeye rarely cuts it for me.

I find in most Marvel vs DC games DC teams do much better - especailly when you consider DC has a lot fewer figures to choose from.

DC has a ton of mid-priced but extremely effective figures. You still can't top Hawk, Cyborg, Raven, Jesse Quick, Hawkgirl, and the LoS to name a few.

I'm hoping Mutant Mayhem takes Marvel to the level Unleashed took DC...

Shazam is another one of those pieces that everyone SAYS is awsome but no one ever actually USES in competative play. HyperSonic Speed is 'like' having range, but it isn't better. You are, at best, still going to be an Outwittable 10 squares away. And if you are, that means you'll be right next to the opposing character next time you attak. Carrying wildcarding character with higher defense? What figures in DC can you do that with? NONE! It must be a Marvel fig. And if you're going to do it that way, may as well just use the ever-popular Invisible Girl.

Other reasons Shazam is not so hot...
Activation clicks are annoying, first of all. If Shazam started with Super Strength instead of Quake he might be a beast. Or if Exploit Weakness worked with HyperSonic. However, neither Quake nor Exploit works with HSS making them powers you pay for but will rarely use. And if he's knocked onto Outwit, not having HSS OR Range makes him a 166 point Outwitter that can be killed later.

Well, the only reason you'd use Rookie Steel over various other ranged characters is because you are fighting a stealth team. You aren't going to be using him because he's a good piece with a team ability that makes him specialized, you are using him to give the anti-stealth power to Dr. Doom.

Steel has a longer life and Toughness. That helps. But Hawkeye is cheaper (making for better wildcard fodder), has better numbers, more tricks up his sleave later in his dial, can be carried, and does more damage longer. More damage longer is very important these days because rather than complex, in-depth strategy, this game is basically about doing as much damage as you can as fast as you can. (I basically want to spit whenever I see someone pull out Doc Samson and a Soda Machine.)

I don't think that's true at all.

Good figures from a DC perspective. But from a Marvel perspective, they can be replaced by figures 10 to 15 points more expensive that are 10 times better. Besides, my arguement is that Marvel makes really high level figures really cheap. So that two of these big Marvel guys can take out 6 or 7 of these little DC guys. It doesn't work the other way, though.

What is the deal with the LoS, anyway? They aren't that good. One-trick ponies, all of them. Chameleon is awful; No one uses him. There are better Outwit options than Brainiac 5. Saturn Girl has been nerfed since the Mind Control rules changes. Cosmic Boy is expensive for a figure that does nothing but TK. And Livewire is mediocre at best.

Cosmic Boy Rookie is a good TK
Saturn Girl Rookie is a really good perplex and flyer
LiveWire is the best of all

1) yep, that's what I hate about NAAT: you NEED TK/barrier/RS/Charge/HSS as much as you needed ANY flyer before.

thus without those powers/support that fig is not that good...

2) That's why Heroclix is based on CHARACTERS...
some people like Loki so much they WILL play him over IM/Thor even if he's not that first strike orientated.

I do and have had good success. He improves with mixed play, for certain but that's all that seems to be played in the 5 venues here in Orlando. And mid-dial Outwit is a great addition to my games.

Presuming your strategy is hit and fade you are correct. But a HSS attack followed by a Exploit Weakness push is pretty darn effective (and vice-versa). As far as Activation Clicks, they don't bother me. And I really like the added comic-accuracy they provide.

6 points isn't that much. Damage longer doesn't really matter since if Hawkeye gets tagged he almost certainly is going down. And it's easy enough to take away his RCE by just placing a grounded fig next to him.

It seems its a difference of play-style - which makes sense. If you stand and fight Steel is a much better choice. His longer life makes KOing him tougher and improves the chances of him getting healed back. But you can save 6 points if you just want to TK a stealth-buster out, take a shot and then try and rescue him.

Not in my experience. In the games I've seen and played in DC usually defeats and all-Marvel team (so far). I'm hoping Mutant Mayhem gives us some really exciting and fun dials, though.

Outside of Chameleon I disagree. DC, especially, has some great TA's for them to use. Brainiac 5 is a fantastic Outwitter for his points who then picks up Perplex, Saturn Girl has both Perplex and MC (which still is a great power) and Cosmic Boy provides flight as well as TK making him a very valuable addition to a team.

In the end I believe your beliefs are based on your strategies, as are mine. For your game Marvel IS probably superior. For me, the DC figures make my play quite competitive.

That's the great thing about this game - it has something for everyone.

I don't like the scupt too much and it always annoys me when an expensive figure is mentioned as a good backup to your team (160 is a LOT of point to spend for a backup. Same reason why I don't like the Dr. Fate clix). But he sounds rather good. Psychic Blast with 3 damage is nice, with it being a range of 8 and 2 targets... That's quite nice. 5 clicks of that is very good. His attack value sounds high, and any character with Outwit and Perplex is usefull. Barrier and Probility Control is just icing on the cake (not really needed with his high AV but PC is always welcome)

Sounds like he's what Dr. Fate SHOULD have been. Hopefully I will be able to get my hands on him soI can swap his figur for Dr. Fates.

Having posted a 5-3 record with a Loki pre-release team that could make no use of his wild card ability, I think the figure is sweet. Yes, it does take some support to use the guy. But the 12 AV, psychic blast, phasing and PC are all useful.

I lost him a few times in the pre-release, but I was still able to win some games because he'd done enough damage with psychic blast before he checked out.

The only real problem with him is that you get to a point in the game where the PC is awesome, but you could really use his outwit that doesn't come until his third click, where you lose invulnerability as well. There were times I contemplated not re-rolling a successful attack so I could get to outwit. That problem is solved in constructed play, of course.