The problem with that is that it just turns into CCE that is 50% unreliable(unless you go with the +1AV/+1Dam CCE variant that is already being discussed). You could change BCF to a roll of 1-2 adds +1, 3-4 adds +2 and 5-6 adds +3 and you get a kind of randomised CCE that could be better, could be worse.

yeah but at the same time you never roll a 1.

yeah but it's a game that involves dice rolling. rolling a one is part of that system. so what if you roll blades and get a 1, you made the choice, you made the roll, live with it.

Not the point at all. Nice attempt to start a silly argument yet again though. I guess we should roll a die for damage on every power then huh, cce, pulse wave, objects, rce etc. etc. Next...

no we shouldn't roll damage for every power, but it is stupid to change a power or modify it so that there is some built in safety net to prevent someone from getting shafted for rolling a 1 on blades/claws/fangs.

why is that stupid? do you get shafted for using any other power that causes an opponent to take damage? Answer nope, only BCF has a chance of doing less than your base damage.

My suggestion was to provide balance to the power, you wont get a 1 but you wont get a 6 either. (Unless your damage is 4 or higher and not many characters wth BCF do.) Most characters that have blades have a 2 or 3 damage value. so again this would give them a better damage than thier normal attack but not take a 2 to a 6 just cause you used a sword.

Anyway you are entiltled to your opinion.

What do you think about barrier making single sided walls instead of squares of blocking terrain?

It would be the same, but more flexible. You could wall off a single character even if it was surrounded by fellows.

~Phil

I'm not sure what you mean by "single sided walls" here. Can you elaborate?

Having to do with the blades/claws/fangs debate, it is more about how the power fails to scale with both damage and points because of it's wild damage potential and complete unreliability.

There's a reason that Cheetah is amazing, Omega Red is decent, and Terrax is bad. I just want more balance across the point spectrum with the power.

If BCF gave anywhere from a +1 to a +3 Cheetah would still be awesome and Terrax would get more use out of his first 3 BCF clicks.

On certain maps we have walls (i.e. The Lab, The Junkyard, etc) and each square has 4 sides. So instead of making 4 whole squares of blocking terrain, what if barrier made 4 wall sides. You would only be able to put one wall on each line inbetween where two squares meet (I hope that makes sense).

If you were trying to block a narrow passage, you could still get as much coverage. If you were trying to block LOF to a group you could still get 4 squares length of blocking. The big difference is that if you were trying to barrier up a single figure, even if they were based by an opponent that was not on a diagonal, you would be able to put up a barrier to protect them for a turn, or to help them run away in the right situation.

~Phil

see he gets it...

Any way we can keep the "risk vs reward" factor of the power alive while trying to keep it consistent across point costs?

With the "death" of feat cards and battlefield conditions, and a new set of rules coming our way from the Blackest Night starter, I felt like this could use a bump.

Lets go over the list, all of this can be viewed in greater detail on the first page.


Stealth, without the aid of trickshot/elitesniper/homing device/maneuver/thunderbolts is once again too powerful. Captain America, Ahab, and Dr. Strange are not enough to counterbalance this.

Blades/claws/fangs remains too strong on cheap figures and too unpredictable to be worth it on powerful ones.

Without mental shields and compel, expensive mind controllers (Apocalypse, LE Victor Von Doom, Superman 1,000,000, Loki) will almost never have a reason to use mind control. it just doesn't make sense to use more than half your force total to maybe maybe take control of an opponents piece, maybe have them do something, and probably take feedback damage. There have been a increasing number of special powers that circumvent how mind control works (Ultron, Circe, Dr. Destiny, Enchantress) when the real problem is the PAC itself. Fix the power and so many tweaks with unnecessary special powers will be unneeded.

Charge/flurry is still far far too potent a combo. They should not work in unison. Having charge and then being able to follow up with flurry or use it if based is PLENTY powerful enough.

Without all the feats that made it interesting, Plasticity is once again barely useful because it cannot tie up figures that break away for free. Outwit should not be a more effective method of tying up a figure than plasticity.

Duos still have a inefficient attack type that doesn't allow them to combine their powers with their attacks. There's a lot of duos coming in B&tB, and I'd like their rules to be more streamlined. There are many duos (Nightwing&Starfire, Cloak&Dagger, Hawk&Dove) that might as well not have powers on their dials, because each turn they have to make the terrible decision to use their powers, or use their duo attack ability. Sometimes it is about options, usually it is about wasted potential.

Forceblast still sucks.

Hypersonic Speed with super strength remains too potent. The ability for a select few pieces move, to deal 6 damage, then run away, remains too strong.

Smokecloud still sucks.

Outwit remains the best way to deal with damage reducers. This trivializes exploit weakness and psychic blast, as well as damage reducing powers, this needs a fix.

Regeneration w/o automatic regeneration remains far too weak to be used under most circumstances, especially on high point figures.

Barrier on expensive characters remains semi-useless due to action allotment and the clearing system.

With point costs getting bigger, your average hero costs more than 75 points, and your average generic costing upwards of 30-40, leadership just isn't as useful as it once was, and leadership was never a good power. For leadership to be truly efficient, you would have to have 7-8 characters on your force for a 300 point game. When Gambit costed 44-51 points this made sense, now he costs 90, etc. Without feat cards to prop it up, the PAC version of leadership that was never any good, needs help.

Perplex lasting a full round instead of one turn makes it too strong, especially with it being able to stack. I personally do not find it very fun when my damage is perplexed down to 1 or my opponent perplexes a defense up to 20. It should not stack.

If you get bumping it, this thread will NEVER get into groovyboy's flash-from-the-past threads.

BCF re-do: Roll d6 and subtract 3; increase character's damage value by the result.

The thing is that since this only applies to con's most of the changes don't need to be done for Heroclix Classic. The tourney scene will see some changes. Lets address the points in which I disagree because everything I don't touch I agree with.

Stealth is strong but their are ultimates and superman team abilities still floating around out there. There will be more in the future. I think that people need to realize that stealth will not be an absolute defense. Smart players, while limited, will get around stealth teams.

BCF on cheap figs makes cheap figs good. Without it your better off giving them CCE. Having damage insurance on high point figures is a bad idea because most high cost figs base damage with some perplex is a better guarantee. Now with that said I do think giving BCF to over 150 point characters is a bad idea unless their base damage is 2 or less.

I partially agree with charge flurry but sadly that's what bricks need to be competitive. As long as charge flurry is not on a range piece I'm fine with that. The big issue that has been touched on time and time again is that a brick only gets 1 shot most times before its liquidated down to mush. Charge flurry makes that one shot count and possibly take down a fig or 2 on the way.

Outwit doesn't trivilize psiblast or exploit weakness or even pulsewave. Here is why. First off these powers let me use my outwit somewhere else. Next exploit weakness and psiblast don't work well against super senses. Pulsewave can take out any defense but is open to its damage restriction on multiple targets and range replacement. I can psiblast from over 12 squares away with some figures. I can't ouwit that far away. We will see a new Magog like figure in the competitive play. Just wait and see.

I agree that perplex needs to go back to being your own turn power again. It was changed due to icwo. If perplex gets reverted back ICWO value goes up in Heroclix Classic.