All good. I only pointed it out because if I'm going to take a beating for something I say or do, I want it to be solely on what I say and do, and not what anyone else says or does =)

Gotta love your timing, Niles. This post nearly made me snort caffeinated beverage clear across my keyboard :laugh:

It happened just after Dave had lost for the first time on Day Two, he was upset. It was on the steps of the feature match area, in a very public setting. With him you never know if he is joking or not, but I had heard him say it back in the day and it always pisses me off when he turns the game into a business. I was shocked to hear him say it to you, since you have the top spot in the game with your 10K/PC double championships. I wasn't going to post it, I figured you would have just ignored it and forgotten it, but last night got hot around here and I slipped.

I get entirely irresponsible like that, especially when I mess around with Dave Spears.

Haha Niles you are probably my favourite realms poster.

Well, this has become quite the ugly mess. You see, in baseball, people actually pay to see the teams play. Baseball gets revenue from so many places its not funny. The Yankees come along and scoop up all of the "bloomed" talent. Teams like the Royals and Brewers still compete, but their talent pool gets raped by the Yankees. They become sort of a "farm system" within the major league because of their inability or lack of desire to actually pay their "stars". Look at their past rosters..... Some HUGE names there. Damon was a Royal. Well here is where it gets interesting. The Royals still get money. They are still a major league team. Some people have endeared themselves to the Royals, and still pay to see them play. They will buy the Jerseys and the baseball cards and all of that good stuff. The Royals cant go away because Baseball will not go away REGARDLESS of what the Yankees do....Besides, ANYONE can cling to the hope of "Wait'll next year." Just ask the Cubs fans. Now this conversation about The Donkey Club. I dont know any of you guys personally. From what I read, you all are incredibly talented. You've made alot of money. Some of you all may have endearing personalities and have many friends.... Some may be as endearing as a wet mop. Some people liken you as the new evil empire, scooping up all of the talent... The Yankees of the Vs league. My take on it is this. You are no Yankees. If the Devil Rays constantly lose to the Yankees, They can't just pack up and go home. Those players won't retire just because the Yankees exist. UDE offers great paychecks to its star players, but unlike Baseball, it can only do that by charging its "prospects" for the right to make it to the World Series. UDE can only hope that there are enough people buying the cards and paying to play in PCQ's and 10k's to offset the prizes it offers. Can 10k's continue to sustain themselves with only 78 people in attendance? How about 8 man PCQ's? Someone said yesterday in Hobby League "Its decks like that that make me glad I don't try to play this game for money"- referring to good ol' X-faces. Of course this is said by a talented player who in my opinion SHOULD be trying to play this game for money. A "just cut us the check" attitude doesn't do much to bring new faces to the game. You know, The people UDE expects to be there to make it economically feasable to "cut you the check". The Donkey Club exists, at least right now. It fine tunes and produces power. Teams are a good thing because anyone can tell you "Alone" tends to suck. Unlike The Donkey Club however, the Yankees do not have the ability to play themselves out of a paycheck. Some people will aspire to be the ones to beat TDC..... Just not as many as UDE would like. Treat the people you beat through the rounds like speedbumps on your way to the check if you want to, but unlike the Devil Rays, they can pack up their stuff and stay home. Alot of us have other "Real Jobs" or depend on parents who can just as quickly dismiss their childs interest as a waste of time and money. Yep, you guys sure are successful, but I bet you anything that UDE is sitting there praying that people like me will still care enough to go to 10k Charlotte after reading a thread like this. Is the Donkey Club a bad thing? Only to itself.

The money UDE spends on the PC and the prizes they offer for tournaments are not expected to be 'offset'. These are part of the etre Pro Circuit machine, which is part of the cost of advertising and publicity. Believe me, UDE does not make money on premier events =)

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Can 10k's continue to sustain themselves with only 78 people in attendance? How about 8 man PCQ's?

UDE does not run these events - PTOs do. They are provided with prize support by UDE, but UDE does not profit from these events. If there is money made or lost it all falls on the head of the PTO. THis includes the PC side events which are run by Professional Events and not by UDE - in TANDEM with UDE, sure, but not by UDE.

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Someone said yesterday in Hobby League "Its decks like that that make me glad I don't try to play this game for money"- referring to good ol' X-faces. Of course this is said by a talented player who in my opinion SHOULD be trying to play this game for money. A "just cut us the check" attitude doesn't do much to bring new faces to the game.

If that's his attitude then he's probably not cut out for Pro tourneys. There are really only two sides to Pro tourneys - players who play the best deck possible (in their mind) to be as successful as possible, and players who play decks that are more unique or fun to which success is secondary to fun. While the former still usually want to have fun at a tourney and the latter usually still hopes for some success and/or money, that still doesn't mean they have a 'gimme gimme gimme' attitude.

One shouldn't begrudge a player because they create a really strong deck and win big with it. That doesn't mean they have a 'just cut me the check' attitude, it just means they are good players =)

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You know, The people UDE expects to be there to make it economically feasable to "cut you the check".

I think you need to read some of Jeff Donais' posts on just what UDE exppects and doesn't expect =)

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Unlike The Donkey Club however, the Yankees do not have the ability to play themselves out of a paycheck.

Really? I can provide you with a list of players who were traded, released or demoted due to poor performancs =)

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Some people will aspire to be the ones to beat TDC..... Just not as many as UDE would like. [snip] Yep, you guys sure are successful, but I bet you anything that UDE is sitting there praying that people like me will still care enough to go to 10k Charlotte after reading a thread like this. Is the Donkey Club a bad thing? Only to itself.

Again, I think it's quite presumptuous to assume what UDE would like...and I don't think that TDC will have any impact on $10K Charlotte whatsoever - certainly not beyond a few players.

In fact, in the short term, if all of TDC starts to continually play in the $10Ks it will have a POSITIVE impact on the game, because it will increase the calibre of player in those tourneys and that will likely increase attendance.

It's the long-term that is more problematic; if they DO dominate the tourneys to the point of winning every one and filling the vast majority of Top 8 slots, then attendance will likely diminish steadily.

I think you have the right idea, it's just your reasoning that feels a bit off to me...

The effect this will have on the game in the long run is dependent upon what the breakdown between those two types of players Kergy mentioned is. The casual players who play for fun likely won't be driven out because money is a secondary goal for them anyway. I guess you could see some serious players who are solo say screw it and leave, but I dont think the impact will be huge.

In a sense, its also makes things fun because they have really set themselves up as the villians at basically every tourney now. I'm the type of player that will always check the standings before my match and if I dont have a shot will give my opponent the game, win or lose, if they actually have a chance to get money or top 8 and I dont. I just think its the right thing to do.

However, I would never concede a match to a member of TDC even if I was 1-9 and they were sitting on top of the bubble. If you want to pound your chest and talk alot of ####, then you dont get any sympathy from me. And although they are all better players then me, bad draws and other things happen. If they get too annoying, hopefully more people will tack this tack as well.

So far, the most amazing feat TDC has performed IMO is managing to make FTN into the good guys.

Kergillian, your counterpoints are well recieved. Perhaps I should clarify some of my statements as my fear of rambling in my previous post may have produced a bit of a cloud. When I say the Yankees aren't gonna play themselves out of a paycheck, meaning the Yankees are a team. An entity. The Roster changes sure enough based on talent and availability, but its baseball. Because its Baseball, the Yankees will always be there.
TDC is assembling arguably the finest talent pool in Vs. A very large talent pool that has the ability to jockey itself into positions at events that the normal player or team member cannot do via concessions and predetermined prize splits. Fine. More power to them. It cannot be argued that the best players or the best decks shouldn't win. TDC has some of the best players that happen to build some of the best decks. It is by group size alone that they become intimidating to the aspiring pro wannabe. They have the ability to place their members into high dollar positions by superior play at first, then calculating who can make what money in later rounds. It SUCKS to the average player to play balls to the wall and do well, only to be on the outside looking in because of a few well placed concessions (which is perfectly legal, but reeks of collusion.) It is that APPEARANCE of collusion that stifles competition and likewise in my opinion, it is that appearance that will be unhealthy and could become a determining factor in whether or not some individuals choose to even compete. TDC is like a good aged cheese. It may taste great, it just smells funny. Its what they want to do though. And you are correct, Kergillian, I may have been a bit overdramatic in regards to the short term, but you hit the nail on the head about the long term.

completely stunned that this thread is still alive.

DIE THREAD DIE!!!

i have decided in my omniscient wisdom that team donkey club is bad for the game.

more-er bad-er than bulk.



we can close this thread now.


p.s. dave spears is a right douche-er

You're probably just the typical American xenophobe.

When you think about it, most of you guys barely know each other (not TDC, the mudslingers of this thread, even when some of those guys are TDC members).

Man, the internet is lame sometimes.