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Here's the text of the card: Give this character a power action; it makes a ranged combat attack targeting a single opposing character to which it has clear line of fire within 6 squares. If the attack succeeds, it deals no damage. The target must either attempt to move adjacent to or attack this character next turn.
First off, what is the timing for Taunt on the character that must take an action? Do they have to do it immediately, or just as some point in the next turn? This is important because I could perplex up the character, TK them closer to the targer, or even heal them before they move.
Next is a somewhat confusing issue about moving adjacent.
Say my grounded figure really doesn't want to have to go over there. What movement path is he allowed to take to get there? I would assume that the figure has to move at least in the general direction of whoever taunted him (such as, he couldn't take a step backwards and then move forward, even if he had enough movement to do so.)
But, does he have to move in a "straight line"? If not, he could move towards some hindering terrain to stop his movement. He could move towards another figure so he has to stop when adjacent. Etc.
Also, what if the character can neither move nor attack the next turn? (Such as; I put up a barrier completely surrounding my own figure. He must attack the taunting figure, so he can't attack the barrier, and he can't move. Does he have to be given an action token, or has Taunt pretty much been nullified at that point?
Lastly, and this is probably the easiest - Is Taunt a one use feat, or does the user get to keep the feat and play it over and over until they are KOed?
This is indeed a very sticky feat. I'd say that it is the controlling player's choice when the taunted character tries to attack or move adjacent, so you could Perplex, heal, etc. beforehand. You other questions I'm not sure about. I would think that you would have to act "in good faith" about moving your character towards the taunter by the most direct path possible. I have a feeling deliberately moving him into hindering terrain or adjacent to another opposing character to keep him from moving adjacent to the taunter will not be permitted.
Most of these questions can be answered with logic:
Clix rules are worded so specifically that if it does not say you have to do soemthing, then you don't have to do it.
Since the text does not specify when the taunted figure must take action, it would seem that it can act at any point during its turn.
The text also does not specify how the character gets there. I would say that if there's a route that allows the taunted to get adjactent to the taunter, then that route must be taken. Thus, you can't walk adjacent to another opponent to stop if you can make it around that figure. If there are several squares of adjacency, it makes the most sense that the taunted figure decides where to end its movement adjacent to the taunter.
Again, unless the card says it is to be removed after used, it stays in the game. So you can taunt as much as you want.
The only question that lacks a clear answer is what happens if the taunted can't attack or move adjacent. I would say he has to take an action regardless. In your example, he would have to destroy the barrier; it's the closest he can get to attacking or moving adjacent. There are numerous other possibilities though: make a friendly figure destory the barrier, taxi the taunted adjacent to the taunter, and others. This definitely needs to be FAQed.
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The only question that lacks a clear answer is what happens if the taunted can't attack or move adjacent.
Remember, though, the Taunted figure doesn't have to move adjacent or attack, he must either attack or ATTEMPT to move adjacent.
So your example would be correct:
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In your example, he would have to destroy the barrier; it's the closest he can get to attacking or moving adjacent.
The thing is the taunted figure would have to do something under its own power. If I hit Despero with a taunt with my Stealthed V CT Elektra on the next turn my opponent's Hawkgirl could not simply carry Despero next to Elektra to avoid pushing Despero. Despero would have to Leap/Climb his way over to her.
In the end Taunt will be putting a lot of Judges to work. So hopefully most Judges will be up to the task.
Visible Dials and Pushing Damage need to be optional. This is the way.
I disagree with SuperGENE. There are many abilities in the game where the wording does not totally match the end result. I also see many people on here (not at all saying that you are doing that, I don't know) who try to manipulate possible interpretations of wordings to find the "loop hole" in how to get around it.
I keep going back the the intent of a "taunt". I know you can't totally apply "real work" logic to a game like this, but until there is an official ruling what other option is there. If you are taunting (or angering) somebody so much that they have to take action against you. They are not going to react "I'm going to get you, but fist I need to ....." They are going to get to you then, there, and now. When Spider-man has taunted the Goblin so much that the Goblin must rashly act against Spidey he turns the glider and get's at him now, or he throws that pumpkin bomb. He doesn't waste time (in his now angered opinion) fixing his wounds or coming up with a strategy. He has been severely ticked off and he is reacting purely on instinct. That is what a taunt is.
Free actions like perplex and outwit I don't see a problem with. But actual "costing" actions go against the idea of what a taunt should be.
I'm of the opinion that it should be the first costing action. And that the movement (if he cannot attack) must be in the most direct / quickest way there (using all their movement while avoiding terrain or figures that would make them stop)
You have angered the character and are causing them to react rashly and impulsively. They aren't in their right mind anymore. If they were able to think why would they push
Of course if it gets officially ruled to go against my thoughts on it. Then that is the ruling and I will follow that
Most wordings that I would refer to, have since been fixed or FAQ's to clarify. Look at the numerous interpretations people have had to enhanced energy explosions, barrier locations, and ability combinations with the combat experts. Now, after FAQ's they have been clarified, but there was confusion that stemmed from the original wording.
I agree with you on NAAT and FCCF. But in those cases they have been clarified as to the intent, and the rules surrounding them have been clearly layed out for us. Becasue Taunt (and the feat cards) are so new, we are left to interptet things in our own manner. For me personally to interpret them I go with the intent behind the action (as I've explained with taunt) Others may go with a more direct or literal interpretation of the wording. I read on here where a person was taking the "Choose a character" on the feat cards to mean that he could have one pounce card apply to 4 different Spider-men on his team (he chose a character and that character was Spider-Man). We know that the proper interpretation is "Choose a figure" and that if you want to have 4 Spidey's with pounce then you need to have 4 pounce cards. This has been officially clarified for his. But his literal interpretation of the wording is correct.
At this point neither my interpretation of the intent, or yours of the details of the wording (how it does not say at the beginning of the turn) are wrong. We are left to interpretation without an official answer. Me, as a judge will rule in my way (it must be first) for my tournaments until an official ruling stating otherwise is made by the Wiz Kids Rules Guru's.
The question I have the most certainty about is the timing. Nearly every mechanic that has to be taken right away is specified as such. "At the beginning of your turn.."
Since Taunt doesn't say that, I'm figuring that's not a requirement.
Also, I know this set was extensively playtested, so I'm going to figure that the omission of "At the beginning of your turn.." was not merely an oversight.
As for putting up a barrier to prevent a figure from moving, I do not think the figure could knock down part of the barrier (assuming its even able to), because the wording of Taunt says it must attack the Taunter, or attempt to move. Attacking a barrier is not either of those options. At the most I could see giving the character a move action even though they're stuck, and that's pretty much it.
About 'attempting to move adjacent', since I choose which adjacent square my character will move into, I can also choose my path to that square. If the path moves through hidnering terrain, then I stop, and that's that.
Those are my interpretations of my own answeres, but I'm still open to hear if people have other answeres they can back up with actual rules (since I'm just going by my own gut here.)
The following statements are just my opinions... my hopes on how it will be ruled. To begin with, I look at Taunt as sort of a focused Mind Control+Battle Fury combo. He just called your mother a nasty name, and your pissed off. You want to grind his bones to make your bread.
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Originally posted by azs Here's the text of the card: Choose a character.
Give this character a power action; it makes a ranged combat attack targeting a single opposing character to which it has clear line of fire within 6 squares. If the attack succeeds, it deals no damage. The target must either attempt to move adjacent to or attack this character next turn.
First off, what is the timing for Taunt on the character that must take an action? Do they have to do it immediately, or just as some point in the next turn? This is important because I could perplex up the character, TK them closer to the targer, or even heal them before they move.
I believe this will be corrected in the FAQs so that resolving the Taunt will be the first thing the Taunted figure has to do on his turn. And if it is, they will also say the activating the Taunt will be the last thing that happens on your turn.
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Next is a somewhat confusing issue about moving adjacent.
Say my grounded figure really doesn't want to have to go over there. What movement path is he allowed to take to get there? I would assume that the figure has to move at least in the general direction of whoever taunted him (such as, he couldn't take a step backwards and then move forward, even if he had enough movement to do so.)
But, does he have to move in a "straight line"? If not, he could move towards some hindering terrain to stop his movement. He could move towards another figure so he has to stop when adjacent. Etc.
Since (I hope) complying with the Taunt will be the first theing the figure has to do, then no other figure will get to take an action first. Also, if there is a clear and direct path, then you will have to take it. Other rules will apply though, of course, such as moving adjacent to another opposing figure. Finally, if you Taunt a figure on the edge of a building that doesn't have L/C, flight, or a ranged attack, and the ladder/stairs is on a different side of the building from the Taunting figure, then it is entirely possible that the Taunted figure will have to move AWAY from the Taunter's direction to move closer (ie: he will have to move towards the ladder to get down, which is away from the Taunting figure.
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Also, what if the character can neither move nor attack the next turn? (Such as; I put up a barrier completely surrounding my own figure. He must attack the taunting figure, so he can't attack the barrier, and he can't move. Does he have to be given an action token, or has Taunt pretty much been nullified at that point?
As I said above, I believe it will be ruled the Taunting happens at the end of your turn and it must be resolved at the beginning of your turn, before anyone can take an action that awards a token. Now, if the Barrier was put up prior to applying Taunt, then he must attempt to comply with the requirements of Taunt. He will have to try to bust out of the Barrier, or L/C, Phase, or fly over it (if outdoors) in an attempt to come adjacent.
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Lastly, and this is probably the easiest - Is Taunt a one use feat, or does the user get to keep the feat and play it over and over until they are KOed?
Since this Feat is a "choose a character" Feat, it stays for as long the chosen character is on the field. This one isn't my opinion though... that's what the rules say.
Last edited by Funky Jett; 11/25/2004 at 16:10..
In my day, we didn't have Heroclix. If you were being attacked by Superman with a 3d dumpster, you just had to hope you could outrun him.
My opinion, which I might add is strongly based on how it would happen in the comics, is:
Spider-Man "taunts" the beejeebus out of Juggernaut.
Juggernaut gets royally ticked (get it? Ticked? Tick? A tick is a blood-sucking bug? You know? Like a spider? Ah, forget it... ).
Juggernaut, on his turn, charges (I know he doesn't have Charge... its an expression-- But, he should have Charge, though...) Spidey and gets there in the shortest and most direct path possible.
This last phrase can be taken two ways:
1) In comics the Juggernaut would just plow through buildings and cars and whatever is in his way to get to the Webslinger. This could be translated into Heroclix that if the most direct route takes him through HT then that is what he has to do. But, logically (at least the logic used in a comic) the Juggernaut can't bust through HT in Heroclix like he does in the comics. Therefore, that leads us to...
2) The Juggernaut MUST take the path of LEAST resistance in order to base and attack the Wallcrawler. That means no HT routes to stop him in his tracks. No going adjacent to another opponent so he has to stop.
I also agree that in no way would a highly agitated and "taunt"ed Juggernaut go seek medical (Support) help first or go find a teammate to help him get closer (I.E.: Fastball Special, TK, Taxi, etc.). He would IMMEDIATELY go after Spidey and not stop for anything.
That's a very good question. I would see the character having to pound at the Barrier since they know there "taunt"ee is behind it. If they can't do the damage to break the Barrier then they have to hit it nonetheless and bruise their fists/feet in the process.
Originally posted by azs About 'attempting to move adjacent', since I choose which adjacent square my character will move into, I can also choose my path to that square. If the path moves through hidnering terrain, then I stop, and that's that.
It's been some time since I've waded into rules debates, but I'll give this a go.
If there is a path which permits the taunted character to reach the taunter, that is the one which must be used. If there are several paths, you get to choose which one, but you cannot choose a path that prevents you from reaching the taunter.
"Attempting to move adjacent" means more than simply giving the figure a move action; it means you must move adjacent if it is possible to move adjacent, and in those cases where you cannot move adjacent you must end up in the closest position possible to the taunter. The wording is actually very good; specifying "most direct", for example, would have been easier but would have also not been in the spirit of the card (you could force the taunted figure to engage a third, uninvolved character rather than the instigator of the taunt).
When there is nothing to prevent the success of the attempt, any action by that figure that falls short of success cannot be considered a legitimate attempt. Not taking a successful path is akin to attempting a close combat attack from 5 squares out. Yes, technically you made an attempt, but that's hardly the intention of the card.
Funky Jet:
I
m not so sure about the actual taunt must be the last action part as it is my logic the the taunter is in "their right mind" to make strategy.