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I know in competitive play it's not a big deal cause in 300 points tk might seem like a waste of an action and a fig that can only bring tk to the map is not very wellcome, but generally play 400/500 points unrestricted and we always field either r jean grey, vet super ape, r cosmic boy or a johnny alpha in our teams, I haven't seen a team without TK in 2 years.
so being the type of play like that, I'm feeling lately a slave of TK, my game is largely focused in TK a fig and then blast, RS or charge to someone, and my opponents do the same thing. One of the nastiest thing an opponen could do to your team is tk a long range attacker specially the ones with RCE and 10 range with +1 to the range with perplex and blast your TK fig stealing 10 squares of movements from your figs. Almost every attack is made after a tk, it's an effective strategy and wins a lot, but I'm feeling like if I have no tk is very difficult to win, we use to field 2 tk figs in some games too. I tried to taxi figs forward in the map, but they are first hitted by my opponent almost always.
how do you guys manage this issue?
do you have any advices on how to deal with, or how to play without relaying in tk too much?
thanks!
I started playing heroclix at a shop... the moment my girlfriend got tired and told me "stop telling me I cant atack because you have I-don't-know-what, and I can't move there cause I don't have that thing"...
TK Is one of the best powers in Heroclix. It allows you to move an allied figure 10 spaces, THEN that figure can do something free of additional charge. Its very useful, as you can see. In most cases, too useful to neglect.
Most game winning teams I've seen have a TKer. Often the TKer can't do much BUT TK. You can't do much about it, but you can't complain either; Its not broken.
TK Requires an action. This isn't a huge deal in some cases, but I can recall some 300 point matches where I was torn between making one attack and moving my other attacker normally, or making a TK and launching attacker 2 into the fray.
TK Requires line of sight. A TK Fig can only move a figure to a space it can legally see. It makes sense, but its not like you're TKing through walls or enemy figures.
TKers are usually vulnerable. If you can ping a TK fig for 2-3 damage, they usually lose TK and become effectively useless as anything but shields. This brings us to our next point:
TKers are useless all alone. If they have nobody to TK, most TKers can't fight very well.
Poor Teamwork instantly nukes TK. Telekenetic Strain hampers it. If you want to make your venue more fun for a day, play one of those cards and watch what happens.
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." "Prove you have the strength and courage to be free."
The key here is mobility. Mobility is a very important aspect of the game. It allows you to land that first hit which is sometimes crucial.
Nowadays though, figures are being designed to be able to take a hit and not be useless. The importance of landing the first hit has been reduced i think, and its for the better IMO.
You can get around not having a TKer by having mobile figures (HSS or Running Shot + good range, or Transporters).
Or you can position figures in a way that makes it hard to target them (Hiding behind blocking terrain, Stealth)
Or you can use those points you aren't using on a TKer for some pogs, or figs that you won't mind taking some hits to protect your less durable figures.
The Tombstone is also a nice object for this. Let someone with Super Strength carry it around, and they get +2 to their defense value. After they are the target of an unsuccessful attack, it is destroyed. But if a team is relying on being able to sling one figure way across the board, that one attack is gonna be wasted if they can't hit you.
BFC's like Shrunk or Deep Shadows help with this as well, as it limits range, much like Telekinetic Strain.
thanks for your answer Xplodiak, sorry about the grammar mistakes, english is not my mother language and I wrote it without double reading it.
I know TK is a huge advantage and I like playing vet super apes and a Moe fig a lot, my only concern is perhaps I'm relying too much on TK in my style of play and maybe I don't play other figs at the top of their possibilities, as an example, I know I can play vet bullseye without tk due to his RS and high range, but almost evey time that I position him in order for him to be able to attack nex round, he gets blasted before he can act, so what I want to know is how do you guys possition your figs without relying too much on tk.
thanks!
I started playing heroclix at a shop... the moment my girlfriend got tired and told me "stop telling me I cant atack because you have I-don't-know-what, and I can't move there cause I don't have that thing"...
Well before you move anyone, you should figure out their reach. If they can TK a Running Shot figure with 8 speed and 6 range, that's 10+4+6=20
Take into account any Perplex that can help that out, and put your guys in a spot just out of range, or if at all possible, in range, but hiding in a spot that the TKer and attack can't get to.
If it's impossible, put a figure up there who can take some damage, but is too dangerous to just ignore. Make the opponent use that TK to deal with this attacker, allowing you to RS or HSS in and deal your damage. I'm generally going to leave my primary attack back a bit until i can tie up their threats or dish out some damage.
Make them use that TK to deal with your secondary attacker, and then swoop in with your primary and wreak havoc.
that's great advices Drop,thanks a lot.
I'll try that.
the one fog I don't have problems in advancing is ultimates black widow, cause she has stealth, walks freely through hindering and she has willpower, so she can easily be the bait. R blackfire is good too, she does 4 damage and she is only 49 points so she is affordable to loose and she can't be ignored.
that's a good thing to try too, I don't usually bait my opponents a lot and I sure should, cause that makes them wast tk and attacks on my secondary and third string attackes other than my heavy hitter.
wich kind of figs do you think are the best baits?
I started playing heroclix at a shop... the moment my girlfriend got tired and told me "stop telling me I cant atack because you have I-don't-know-what, and I can't move there cause I don't have that thing"...
Bait works well. Scourge in unrestricted is an amazing bait piece. Place Armor Piercing on him and for 31 points he can use 11 AV and 2 damage, plus shape Change for the defensive and AP will make damage stick.
Barrier is the single best way to hold a position without being atacked. You can hide behind it on your turn, harm opponents with range or HSS, and come back and then make more barrier.
Figures with retardedly high defense values can also be helpful as shields. In a move of sheer brilliance, try to get cheap ES/D figures in with Jakeem Thunder. He defends for 18/19 and ESD makes it 20/21
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." "Prove you have the strength and courage to be free."
Figures that are tough to hit are nice, whether it be a high defense, or Super Senses. And figures that get better as they are hit work well too. Off the top of my head, I'll throw a few out there for you.
Gambit, he has stealth and RS, so move him within running shot range behind some hindering, either they TK someone up there to hit him up close (landing him on some nasty close combat clicks) or they allow him to Running shot after passing or you can push him, as he gets Psychic Blast and an 18 defense. (Plus he's my favorite Marvel figure)
Strong Guy is great, his best clicks are in the middle of his dial. Move him up there, if they hit him, he's got charge, high defense, Inv, and Super Strength. If they allow him to keep moving up then just keep pushing him until he lands on his sweet spot.
Many Hulks are this way as well. The new Incredible Hulk LE is a nice figure who has the transporter move and attack ability for the first half of his dial, and he can take a pounding for 113 points.
You could always move an Outwitter into range as well, and then Outwit TK. Batman and Black Adam both have stealth with their outwit, which makes them nastier.
And Black Adam has Barrier as well, Barrier is another great way to move in close to your opponent while avoiding a TKer's range.
Bait works well. Scourge in unrestricted is an amazing bait piece. Place Armor Piercing on him and for 31 points he can use 11 AV and 2 damage, plus shape Change for the defensive and AP will make damage stick.
Barrier is the single best way to hold a position without being atacked. You can hide behind it on your turn, harm opponents with range or HSS, and come back and then make more barrier.
Figures with retardedly high defense values can also be helpful as shields. In a move of sheer brilliance, try to get cheap ES/D figures in with Jakeem Thunder. He defends for 18/19 and ESD makes it 20/21
Oh, and if we're talking unrestricted, FF Hawkeye is probably one of the most annoying figures ever created. He is a transporter with 10 movement and 10 range. So you could move 10 squares and then shoot 10 squares. Or move halfway there, attack and neuter the TKer, and then move away.
Oh, and if we're talking unrestricted, FF Hawkeye is probably one of the most annoying figures ever created. He is a transporter with 10 movement and 10 range. So you could move 10 squares and then shoot 10 squares. Or move halfway there, attack and neuter the TKer, and then move away.
And what´s best: his move and attack ability is triggered by a move action, so you get a free attack with him (-2 AV).
Have you ever tried playing with Antman LE + Thunderbolts + some Avengers figs? Turn Avenger TA into Defenders and have your entire team defend 20 (even 22 if you have ESD on your team). Add some probability control (any Scarlet Witch Avenger TA) and you won´t need to worry about TK!
Using FF V Hawkeye with Jakeem Thunder is just plain wrong in some cases. I never mentioned that adding Hindering could make a 22 Defense at max. Thats rather disgusting. With Thunderbolts Hawkeye can get other sick options, and Jakeem Just keeps the Defense high. Continue with Poor Teamwork or TK Strain, and try LE Super-Nova out, too.
Arcade is a good Outwitter, Barrier dude, and he can detonate objects, too. The object thing is icing, really, but 10 range barrier is nice.
Toss on someone with ######## cost efficiency and good range abilities(AW Chair Magneto) for some smackdown!!!
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." "Prove you have the strength and courage to be free."
Figures with retardedly high defense values can also be helpful as shields. In a move of sheer brilliance, try to get cheap ES/D figures in with Jakeem Thunder. He defends for 18/19 and ESD makes it 20/21
For this strategy, Jakeem is certainly good - but Ch'p is even better. At 82 points he's substantially cheaper, the Green Lantern TA allows him to carry multiple allies, he has an 18 DV with Defend on his second click (where he also has Running Shot, for added offense), and he even has that TK you cherish so much.
I know in competitive play it's not a big deal cause in 300 points tk might seem like a waste of an action and a fig that can only bring tk to the map is not very wellcome, but generally play 400/500 points unrestricted and we always field either r jean grey, vet super ape, r cosmic boy or a johnny alpha in our teams, I haven't seen a team without TK in 2 years.
That's really interesting.
Prior to Floorced events, and really before M&M, I probably didn't see a team with TK in about 2 years.
500 point games, I hope my opponent chucks someone out 10 spaces. He may get the first strike in, but he's never getting back alive.
The best way to counter it (outside of BFC's) is to layer your forces so when he chucks someone out, he's throwing that figure into a hornet's nest.
Even if the figure can run back, with enough mobility you can shrink the map so TK is a total waste of points.
Barrier and basing the TKer to block Line of Fire is helpful, too.
And if you are patient, just move your team to right outside his range so he has to use up all his movement to make his attack. Then move in low value targets forcing him to make a tough choice - go after junk or just keep waiting and waiting with his big gun sitting in his starting area.
Visible Dials and Pushing Damage need to be optional. This is the way.