please read the whole thing before commenting. i feel i have a legitimate dispute here.

the rules we're dealing with for this;

from the errata;
in contact w oracle
-When an Agent already has a
power showing on its dial that
Oracle has, it may not be granted
that same power from Oracle.
Oracle grants the Agent the power
that is showing on her dial. The
power that the Agent has been
granted can be countered.

superman enemy TA
“If that character already possesses
Outwit, then this team ability has
no effect.”

so we know that we cant use any combination of ICWO, SE TA and standard outwit/perplex/leadership to gain 2 uses of any of those powers. got it.

from the losh rulebook;
Being able to use a team ability (as wild cards can do)
or a power (as some team abilities and special powers allow a character to do) does not
satisfy the prerequisites for a feat; the character must possess the team ability or power.

ok, special powers do not count as prerequisites for feat cards. got it.

the question is this; does the last rule go both ways? meaning if the prereque for gaining outwit/perplex/leadership is not having outwit/perplex/leadership, and special powers do not count towards cards' prereques--since characters do not actually "possess" the powers, but can simply "use" the powers--doesnt that mean a character like the leader can gain 2 outwits? he doesnt have outwit...he has "intellect".

INTELLECT: The Leader can use Outwit and Probability Control.

the other part of my theory is that in order to counter a special power which grants the "use" of standard powers, you must counter all aspects of the special power. example;

the leader uses intellect to use outwit, to counter maestro's battle fury, thus allowing him to mind control the big green. resolve that action. maestro, with his new found ability to make ranged attacks, wants to throw an object at the leader. however hes worried about the roll. he wants to have his friend batman (yea...they hang out lol) outwit the leaders probability control but he cant without giving maestro back his wonderful battle fury. curses! foiled again!

a power can only be countered if the character has it showing on the stat slot OR if the game mechanic specifically says "this power may be countered normally". therefore the leader's "intellect" power is not outwit.

for the record i know im rules lawering and this could be bad...but i dont want to face a team w 2 outwits on every fig either...unless i can do it too lol.

thwipp

and ps. this is NOT an icwo bashing thread lol.

This has already been discussed. Please use the search feature in the future:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...14#post3324614
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...20#post3217820

Hint:
The answer seems to be yes.

i mustve searched the wrong thing. but this also means that joker, time trapper and the new mordru can use their "tweaked" outwit twice. since it says "when so and so uses outwit, they may choose to use it normally or....". right?

The problem with the search feature is that ICWO is mentioned in every thread and also is alot of other stuf and you have to search through over 100 pages of threads to find the right one with a name on the thread that doesnt make any sense comparing to the subject to the thread....That was all :D

No. That wording isn't letting them use it twice. You get to use it twice if you have it from this and that.

i was continuing on from the point made earlier. meaning if joker has ICWO, oracle is on the card and joker uses a power action to gain outwit while he has "joker makes the rules", he may then use outwit normally twice, or use outwit to counter all powers...blah blah blah...twice or outwit 1 thing normally and 1 characters powers...

Ah...gotcha...that's fine.

Then don't search for ICWO. I got those threads by searching for The Leader and Superman Enemy.