Hello everyone, I just bought the new Fantastic Four starter today and started thinking of what nasty new tricks I can come up with. I might have come up with one but I really have no idea if it would be considered legal or not and that's what brings me here. I also apologize if something along these lines has already been brought up.

Figures involved (all Fantastic Four keyword and team ability):

The Thing- 18 defense + Super Strength

Mr. Fantastic- (Inventive Genius) Mr. Fantastic can use perplex, but he can modify the target's combat values by +2 or -2 if he is targeting himself or another character with which he shares a keyword.

Human Torch- Energy/Shield Deflection



Object Token:

Tombstone- The defense of any character carrying a tombstone is modified by +2. After the resolution of an unsuccessful attack against a character carrying a tombstone, remove tombstone from the game.

Feat Card:

Fantastic Four (even though it's retired)- All friendly characters with the Fantastic Four team ability have the following team ability instead of the Fantastic Four team ability: Any member of this team may replace its defense value with the defense value of any other member.




The whole thing I am trying to do with this combo is give the Human Torch a ridiculously high defense value. It also all counts on the fact that the feat card doesn't say anything about the switching the defense with an unmodified defense value of another member. This is one of the things I was wondering about, if I am interpreting this part wrong please let me know.


Step 1:

Perplex The Things defense value by +2 using Mister Fantastic in order to make it 20

Step 2: Have the thing pick up the tombstone in order to raise his defense by +1 (due to rule of three) which would now make it 21

Step 3: Use the feat card on Human Torch in order to give him a defense of 21

In order for these next two steps to work a ranged combat attack would have to be made against the Human Torch.

Step 4: Place the Human Torch into hindering terrain in order to raise his defense by +1. It would now be 22

Step 5: The use of Energy/Shield Deflection would raise it by +2. Making it a grand total of 24



So that's all of it, I would greatly appreciate any feedback that you have, like I said I really don't know if it's considered legal and it would be nice to find out.

Thanks a lot

the tombstone defense raise wont transfer over like that. it is only for the fig holding the object. other than that i dont see a problem but if you have any of the vet invisible woman or sue storm then ya you could up that defense real well.

Remember the Rule of 3!

The Fantastic Four feat has been errated long ago to match other abilities of the same type : You can only share the unmodified defense value with it, so no modifiers can be shared, from Perplex, ES/D or from an object.
In your exemple, The Thing would be able to share his natural 18 AV with everybody, allowing the Human Torch to reach a 21 DV on hindering terrain and with ES/D. The Thing DV can also be modified to 21 with Inventive genius and the Tombstone, but he won't share this value, only the natural one.
And since Inventive Genius is a perplex, lasting a full round, its modification apply before any replacement coming from the Feat (which takes place during the attack), so while you can raise any other F4 team member's DV by +2 using the SP, you'll have to choose between the modified DV or the replaced one, but you can't modified the replacement value with this SP (other modifiers that apply at the same time as the feat, like the hindering terrain modifier, would apply after the replacement, though).
Hope I'm clear (I'm not an english speaker).

Cap'

Actually, the Fantastic Four alternate team ability doesn't take place during the attack. It is not worded nor errata'd to be worded like Defenders or JSA. You can replace a team member's defense value at any time, including before or after modifications.

It isn't worded that way, but we've been told countless times that it only occurs during the attack, just like JSA et al.

How about Mr. Fantastic w/ BT perplexing eveyone's values up by 2 who shares a keyword.

Jesse

That's fine, but it is still a modifier which would get replaced when the ATA is used.

Furthermore the Hindering Terrain Modifier only applies during a ranged attack and only after all other replacement values:

FF Rules p. 11
Notice the modifier is only applied when the LoF is drawn during a ranged attack. You get no bonus from hindering terrain until you are actually attacked.


We also now have the mandated rule Replace then Modify.

FF rules p. 5-6

Modifiers and replacement values that take effect during an action are in effect only for the duration of that action unless stated otherwise. Modifiers and replacement values that take effect during an attack are in effect only for the duration of that attack unless stated otherwise. When a value would be both replaced and modified, replace the value and then modify it.
well here is the wammy IMHO.

It says for the duration of the action.

Two ways to look at it if the Replacement replaces for the whole action until you say shut it off....then you CAN perplex it up....BUT if you rule it as you have to turn the replacement defense on every attack (which is what i thought you had to do) then since the perplex would have to be already active it would get replaced.

just my opinion take'er for what she's worth.