Shape Change/Skrull Roll - Etiquette

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Shape Change/Skrull Roll - Etiquette

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10/28/2008, 14:32

Binnister

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Shape Change/Skrull Roll - Etiquette

I've run into a bit of trouble playing with SC and the Skrull team ability...specifically in either 'forgetting' that I have it or having my opponent make his attack roll before I have a chance to try to evade the attack.

What I'd like to know if there is anything specific in the rules about allowing/disallowing SC/Skrull TA rolls after certain actions have taken place. Is there any responsiblity on the attackers part to determine if there is anything that would prevent the attack? Eventhough the player might 'forget' that a character has SC/Skrull TA, it doesn't change the fact that the clix *has* the power.

So, I'm going to list a couple of scenario's. Could someone please let me know in what situations a person could legally use SC/Skrull TA? Then, could you indicate what situations you'd feel comfortable allowing (i.e. being a good sport) the evasion roll?

#1: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. [Ok, I know...no-brainer.]

#2: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice before you can say anything or roll to evade.

#3: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You 'remember' that you have SC/Skrulls.

#4: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You start to take clicks of damage when you 'remember' that you have SC/Skrull.

#5: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You take the damage and your opponent moves on to his next action. You 'remember' that the character that was hit had/has SC/Skrull.

#6: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You take the damage and your opponent ends his turn. You 'remember' that the character that was hit had/has SC/Skrull

Now, I realise that some of these scenario's are a bit of a stretch, but I just want to see what the rules allow and how forgiving other players are...

10/28/2008, 14:36

cpattersoniv

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Depends on the situation.

If I'm playing someone experienced, I wouldn't allow 3-6.

I always forget about Shape Change.

I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stranger.

cpIV

10/28/2008, 14:44

MBIII

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If I notice that my opponent has SC/Skrull, I usually ask "is there something you want to do before I roll?". Lol, happens alot. But usually once the roll is done, then it's usually understood that the SC/Skrull role can't be made. But I have allowed it in the past. There's gotta be some point where we have to stick to the rules, I guess, but it's usually pretty lax in my venue. I did once have a guy call the attack and role real quick to prevent my announcing the SC roll. I called it as he rolled, and rolled anyways. I think I missed it though. Jerk!

10/28/2008, 14:58

Hero_guy

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Well, considering the fact that determining which power(s) both the attacker and target is using at the time an attack is declared, The attacker is obligated to at least allow some time for you to declare that you are using the Skrull TA/Shape Change. Usually, I declare an attack on a figure and role. However, when i know my opponent has the Skrull Ta/Shape Change, I will declare my target and wait for a response. If they still do not role, I will go over ever detail of my attack such as "My attack is X and you have a Y defense so I need to roll Z, using Power A." then wait for a response. If they still do not roll for Skrulls/SC then I will assume that they do not want to use their Skrull/SC and then roll my attack dice. I won't allow my opponent to roll for either after I have already done so. Of course, this changes and I will remind players with less experience that they might want to roll Skrull/SC, but that's only when I get the feeling that they are less experienced.

10/28/2008, 14:58

ghosta

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As long as the dial has not been turned.....we allow sc / skrull rolls to be made after dice have been rolled. It prevents the fast rolling of dice by the attacker. Well, not really prevents it......but I have played against some people who would announce the attack and roll before I could look to see if I had shape change or not. It all depends if you're playing friendly or cutthroat...

<-------cougar hunter

10/28/2008, 15:02

artangelJMW

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My friends and I have a one screw up rule. If you forget until after the attack You can use your one screw up to undo it but the role stays the same. If you screw up again in that game you are SOL...but we tend to play a lot of characters that we don't normally play at tournements so not knowing all of the characters quirks happens.

Also, I usually point out shape change and skrull. I like winning fairly and against my oppenets full force. Also, I hate the complaining after a butt kicking "If I just remembered that one shape change I would have totally won" and then they procede to roll a die after the game is won and they get their skrull role and complain all night that they should have won the tourney.

Or let your oppent roll under the condition that you get one redo in return. If I let you roll Skrull and regardless if it changes the outcome of the attack I get to say oops I forgot__________ in return.

10/28/2008, 15:03

Eargosedown

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Quote : Originally Posted by Binnister

#1: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. [Ok, I know...no-brainer.]

#2: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice before you can say anything or roll to evade.

#3: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You 'remember' that you have SC/Skrulls.

#4: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You start to take clicks of damage when you 'remember' that you have SC/Skrull.

#5: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You take the damage and your opponent moves on to his next action. You 'remember' that the character that was hit had/has SC/Skrull.

#6: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You take the damage and your opponent ends his turn. You 'remember' that the character that was hit had/has SC/Skrull

Now, I realise that some of these scenario's are a bit of a stretch, but I just want to see what the rules allow and how forgiving other players are...

Its common practice at my venue to, if one or both players have skrull/SC, to announce attacks as 'declaring the actions of the attack'.
So, 'Spider-man declares a close combat action on Mrs Marvel' Opponent can either roll their dice then, or simply say 'okay'.

As for your questions:

Of course, you declare, make the roll, etc.
If they roll their dice before giving you a chance to react, tell them your character has shape change/skrull, and ask them to roll again after they are able to attack.
If you 'remember' after you said 'Ok' to them declaring the attack, then you've lost your chance. If they just roll and manage to hit without giving you time to react, than see #2
Way too late, once you start turning that dial, you've accepted damage.
Even worse than the last, Its optional, and just like forgetting leadership, its too late.
And once more, past your chance.

Again it comes down to friendly gameplay, and when and when not you feel like being open. If my opponent forgets their skrull/SC, say ok, i make my roll, than they realize they have it. 8/10 times i'll let them roll it then. Thought sometimes i don't, especially against more seasoned players.
In the end, its the person who has the power's responsibility to remember they have it, and its the attacks responsibility to allow them time to roll it.

As a general rule of thumb, opponent with shape change/skrulls or not, always declare, wait for an OK, then attack.

10/28/2008, 15:09

charlesx

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Quote : Originally Posted by ghosta

I agree with this assessment. Once damage has been clixed and the opponent has moved on to the next action (and/or the turn has ended), it's on the person who took the damage - as stated in points 5 and 6.

However, I'd allow points 1 through 4 in a friendly game and as a gesture of good sportsmanship. After all, I have never been a rules lawyer. That is my stance on the matter, anyhow.

"I have deprived your ship of power, and when I swing around, I mean to deprive you of your life. But I wanted you to know who it was who had beaten you."

KHAN NOONIAN SINGH

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10/28/2008, 15:16

kain

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Good HeroClix

For me, doing good HC has always been about making sure you communicate what you're doing clearly and *quickly* to your opponent. As soon as they say they are attacking the skrull/shapechanger/entangler (a strategy I've used lately), I make sure to indicate verbally and with body language for them to wait, making sure that they know I am declaring my evade powers.

Note that it is your responsibility to rembember that those rolls need to be made. If I'm using a

character and am doing a complicated attack, and the other guy waits until after i've assigned damage to say oops-shapechange! It's a bit late by that point, especially after he's already PCd me twice, ya know?

That said, if your opponent is trying to play extra-fast to not give the chance for those to be declared... well in another game, poker, I think that's called angle shooting, and the same applies here.. I could understand if its close to time and there's a bit of tension, but if I were in a big tourney and this happened more than once or twice, after asking the other guy to shelve the BS, I'd start looking to other solutions...

Of course, on the other side of the coin, if I'm attacking a guy with SS, I always make sure they get their SS rolls in if I was doing a multi-target attack. For the abilities that force a change in action, just a hand signal and saying wait a sec.. has almost always been enough.

I just try to make sure to establish that sort of communication when a game starts so that everyone helps make it a straight game. Otherwise it's too easy to do things like forget your white-crazy####-gobbledeygook SP was outwitted and you're trying to use a part of that etc etc.

Last edited by kain; 10/28/2008 at 15:21.. Reason: shortened for brevity

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10/28/2008, 15:24

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TheFreak

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Quote : Originally Posted by Binnister

#1: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. [Ok, I know...no-brainer.]

#2: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice before you can say anything or roll to evade.

#3: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You 'remember' that you have SC/Skrulls.

#4: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You start to take clicks of damage when you 'remember' that you have SC/Skrull.

#5: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You take the damage and your opponent moves on to his next action. You 'remember' that the character that was hit had/has SC/Skrull.

#6: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You take the damage and your opponent ends his turn. You 'remember' that the character that was hit had/has SC/Skrull

Now, I realise that some of these scenario's are a bit of a stretch, but I just want to see what the rules allow and how forgiving other players are...

1. I assume you mean this goes as normal. You declare, I say SC, determing outcome and continue.
2. If this happens, and I don't get a chance to roll and I know it's available, then I politely ask you to wait as I roll SC. If you've already rolled as I say it, then I ask you to roll again. That assuming you say "I attack Skrull, heres my roll, I hit" without me getting a chance to say "wait I have SC".
3. Technically, this isn't allowed. In friendly games it's one thing...but tourneys you really shouldn't.
4. See 3. Because, what you are going to do at this point is you've made your opponent WASTE a good attack, and now they run the risk of hitting someone else. This can lead to cheating "I'll see if he hits, then do Shape Change, if he hits and i make SC roll, then he's wasted that hit". Not saying everyone will do that, but it's WAY too possible.
5. Should have remembered, sorry about that.
6. Actions or end of turn have happened. Sorry, SOL...

that's the way i see it.

Contrary to popular belief, I do know what I'm doing

10/28/2008, 15:35

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saturnflight

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Quote : Originally Posted by Binnister

[indent]#1: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. [Ok, I know...no-brainer.]

#2: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice before you can say anything or roll to evade.

#3: Opponent announces intention to attack SC/Skrull character. Opponent rolls attack dice and scores a hit. You 'remember' that you have SC/Skrulls.

I draw the line there. Anything after the dial's started moving is no good. I figure, though, that if I roll the attack, it may very well be my fault for rolling too fast, and the dice could use the practice. I also play with folks who are kind enough to go full circle on this thought; namely, if they forget to roll a Shape Change or Skrull on a miss, they'll roll it, and if they land it, I can go do something else.

Even in tourney settings, I'll follow these rules for myself. It's up to the other guy how courteous and forgiving he wants to be.

To those rule-mongers reading this thread: this is one of those opportunities to lock in a vote for fellowship.

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10/28/2008, 17:26

#12

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I try to announce my intentions first and wait for my opponent to respond. Granted sometimes in the heat of the moment (ie time runningout and I am short on points...) I forget to take the breather after declaring the attack and rolling.

As far as being on the other side I tend to go by the rule that if I pick up the figure then I have resinged to taking the damage. Meaning if I pick it up and notice the Skrull/shapechange then I take the damage, but if my opponent rolls before I have a chance to do my roll then I call shennanigans, get my broom and beat him with it (but not her cause that would be wrong).

There's and evil monkey living in my closet.....No really he eats my Clix.

10/28/2008, 17:58

#13

Sgt Grimes

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with skrull/shape change I usually let them roll at any stage during the turn if they forgot. For some reason the one I dont like is when they forget to turn off stealth or leadership rolls.

Clix for Sale

10/28/2008, 18:45

#14

Silver Lantern

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Quote : Originally Posted by artangelJMW

Also, I usually point out shape change and skrull. I like winning fairly and against my oppenets full force. Also, I hate the complaining after a butt kicking "If I just remembered that one shape change I would have totally won" and then they procede to roll a die after the game is won and they get their skrull role and complain all night that they should have won the tourney.

I completely agree. This is a game of little plastic toys you nerds. You're not "cool" or getting one over on anyone by realizing that they have SC/Skrull and not telling them about it if they don't realize it. If you do, I hope the Supersenses/Skrull Karma fairy comes and bites you in the team ability area of your dial.

I mean seriously, are you tough guys playing for rent money or something? Give people a break over here. Sheesh!!

Win fair and square, not through underhanded subterfuge and unscrupulous tactics. Otherwise, your victory is a tainted pile of doo doo.

Quote : Originally Posted by artangelJMW

Or let your oppent roll under the condition that you get one redo in return. If I let you roll Skrull and regardless if it changes the outcome of the attack I get to say oops I forgot__________ in return.

I don't limit it to "one redo" but I appreciate this philosophy. I generally let people take stuff back, but its a two way streak, if they try to be sticklers about something they themselves have done wrong, I will bust their balls until the end of days.

Quote : Originally Posted by mbauers

Ok, so this game's finally over?

Who the eff daykilled me back to back days? Seriously.

10/28/2008, 23:00

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All of those things have happened to me.

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