Does the hindering terrain bonus tie into the rule of three? If I have ESD and perplex my defense +1, do I lose the hindering terrain bonus to defense from range?

Thanks.

Well, you don't "lose" it per se, but the rule of three applies. All of the factors go into play.

So you have ES/D and you perplex defense +1 and you are in hindering for a +1. Your defense value cannot be modified + or - 3 from it's printed value, so when the attack occurs you get a +3 defense. But if your opponent perplexes down your defense -1 and you were in the same scenario, you would have a +3 defense again.

so, if i have wolverine from Sinister, and he's on his CR click, i can only perplex by 1? if someone shoots at him from range, could my other perplexer add 1 then?

Yea. Lets say you have a figure that has 15 defense with CR. You perplex his defense up twice to a 17. In close combat it will be an 18 defense, in range it will be a 17, 18 if hindering modifer applies. In close combat you would get +4 to your defense, but because of the rule of 3 you can only max out your modification of defense as a +3

Clear as mud, right?

Basically the rule of three is that you sit back and look at all the modifications that apply to a printed combat value and if at the end of all of the modifications the value is modified by more than three, the rule of three kicks in.

You can perplex all you want, it's just that the value can not be modified by more than + or - 3.

Also, you can't perplex in the middle of an action (perplex is a free action that has to be used during your turn, so you wouldn't be able to use an additional perplex if he was attacked from range).

But in your scenario, Wolverine is on his 16 def CR click. He can have his defense perplexed by +1 twice (or even more) during your turn.

If he was attacked by a ranged combat attack during your opponent's turn, he would not get the CR, so his defense would be modified by +1 first perplex, +1 second perplex. Because the total of the modification is +2, the rule of three does not apply and his defense would be 16 +2 = 18.

If he is attacked with a close combat attack his defense would be modified by +2 from CR, +1 first perplex, +1 second perplex. But since you can't modify a value by +4, the rule of three overrides and his defense becomes 16 +3 = 19.

The Rule is applied when the value is used.

I can Perplex my Moloid's damage up 6 times for a +6, but when he attacks, the Rule will cap it at +3.

The most practical example is when using the Move & Attack ability. I can use 5 Perplexes on my Attack Value for a +5. If I make a straight up attack, that drops to +3. If I use M&A, then, when the -2 to the Attack value kicks in, I still get the +3.

I respect your ruling as a judge, and will follow the example given, but I have to disagree with your assessment of this rule and your statement that The Rule is applied when the value is used. I may be incorrect, but I don't believe I am.

This is the wording from the Fantastic Four Rulebook regarding the Rule of 3:

The rule above states nothing about the cap on the modifiers whether the combat value is being used or not used, or when and/or during it being used. It simply states that no combat value can be modified no more than 3.

Perplex modifies a combat value, whether that combat value will be or is being used or not. Since Perplex modifies a combat value, and no combat value can be modified more than 3 times, it is only possible to Perplex any given combat value by +3. So the Move & Attack example you gave would not work, because you can not Perplex any given combat value higher than +3 at any given time, and not just if and when the power is used.

Now if you could Perplex during an action, you would then be able to do it, because you would take a -2 modifier to your Attack Value, then you could Perplex it by 3. However, you can't Perplex during an action, only before an action is given.

Here is the current wording for Perplex:

However, if you have a Standard Power, such as Energy Shield/Deflection or Combat Reflexes, which gives you a +2 modifier to your Defense Combat Value against Ranged or Close Combat Attacks, respectively, you can still use 3 separate Perplexes to modify your Defense Value by +3.

Example: Quicksilver has ESD, I use 3 different Perplexers to modify his Defense by +3. Against a Ranged Attack he would only get a +3 modifier to his Defense Value against Ranged Attacks as the +3 for Perplex would override the +2 for ESD. While facing a Close Combat Attack he would also have a +3 Defensive Modifier for the 3 Perplexes.

On a side note, since this comes up a lot: The Meteorite Special Object is subject to the Rule of 3 no matter how high you roll on the D6 roll.

But you are.

"When used" is sort of a term given to it because that's how the effect comes out. It's the easiest way to look at it. Technically, yeah, if I've used 5 Perplexes, I am sitting there at +3, but the other +2 is still there in limbo. Nothing eliminates it. When another effect comes in to reduce it, the +2 comes back into play.

I really liked the tone of your answer, really.

I would like to add a little to this subject to explain a little about this.

The rule of 3, like you said, does not state the moment in wich the modificacion is being used or not.
The modifications are the one that imply when they are used.
I´ll give you some examples.

You have Juan Chongo with energy shield/deflection standing in hindering terrain...
You can perplex his defense up, but there´s nothing in perplex that says "add +1 to defense to close combat attacks", you just plain add to the defense value.
So Juan Chongo is +3 to his defense value and he has ESD and he is standing on hindering terrain...
His defense value is +3 and nothing in the rule of 3 prevents that.
But until he is attacked ESD or the hindering terrain modifier won´t kick in.
So if Juan Chongo is the target of a close combat attack he is +3 to his defense, but if he is the target of a ranged combat attack he will be +3 (for the perplexes) +2 (ESD) and +1 (ht modifier) and then the RO3 will kick in and stop the modification being more than 3.
Now lets say that before being the target of the attack the opponent uses his perplexes and he modifies the DV of our dear Juan to -4.
After the perplexes he declares the ranged combat attack against Juan, so we will have this scenario:
Original DV +3 (own perplexes) -4 (opponent perplexes) +2 (ESD) +1 (ht modifier) = Original DV +2
As you can see this time the RO3 wont activate cause the original combat value is not modified without the +- 3 range.

Same example would be valid if Juan Chongo has combat reflexes and we have to see if he is attacked by a ranged or close combat attack.

This is the reason that the Ro3 activates at the time the modifiers are really used.
This is the reason why a value (defense is the most easy to understand) may be modified beyond the +-3 range but until that value is used the Ro3 wont activate.

I hope I´ve been clear enough (english is a second language to me) to help you :D

Excellent use of examples, as_bat. Rep to you.

I agree. Nice job.

I need to get me one of those Juan Chongo pieces, too. I could team him up with Chris "Christmas" Rodriguez...

i thought this would talk about movement out of hindering, stats shouldnt be lowered more than 3, so if i have a 12 move and im in hindering, it should only go down to 9... if we have rules for some things we should have it for everything...

Well, we do have rules for modifiers (the rule of three). We also have rules for replacement values (which are different from modifiers).

But you're right. The rule of three should apply to everything. Including the attack roll. A character with a 9 attack value should never hit an opposing character with a 13 (or more) defense value, unless he rolls a critical hit. :speechles

We do have rules that apply to everything in the game. Ro3 is one of them. Why would the Ro3 apply to replacement values when the rule clearly states that it only effects modifiers? Modifiers and replacements have always been 2 different mechanics in HC.

Edit:
After having read this wonderful line of reasoning, I would agree. A 13 defense should be unstoppable against AV's of 9 or less, barring crit hits. I mean....heaven help us, look at the chaos that has ensued because we have ignored Ro3 on attack rolls! Figures are getting ko-ed in EVERY game!!! Will the madness never stop?