Before I get pasted, keep in mind that until yesterday, I haven't played a game since Crisis was released, and had only used Lead & Tin and Will Magnis and Platinum once. I thought I fared well with them. But now, I see tons of posts indicating that the Duos need fixing. Looking at the rules, they can take one action and make either a ranged or close combat attack and cannot be carried. I don;t see this as that bad. What am I missing? Thanks!

I personally like duo figures.

With duo figures you need to know their strengths and weaknesses. You usually need something more than the do figure to do really well. This is usually a perplexer or someone with enhancement, or maybe a feat. A lot of people complain that the could play starfire and nightwing instead of the the duo and their team would do better. That is a possibility, but I have not had any trouble with the duo figure. Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy are very solid. The Metal Men duos are also very good. I can win with them and I can lose with them, but I can do that with every other figure that was ever made. I will not complain because I have not found the right way to play them.

I sometimes think that people do not like them because they are not game breaking. Thankfully they are not. They just need another mindset of strategy to pull off their powers well. As always, it comes down to the roll of the dice.

The most common complaint is because of the Duo Attack wording the attacks made are almost always incompatible with other powers. This means that often you have "options" that tend to cost more points than they are worth. Also figs can't be carried. Also if a figure lacks range it make the Duo attack of much less value.

Take:
si058 R Power Man and Iron Fist
Team: Spider-Man
Range: 0
Points: 136
Keywords: Avengers, Celebrity, Heroes for Hire, Martial Artist, Marvel Knights

8 10 18 3

8 10 17 3

8 11 17 3

7 10 17 3

7 10 16 3

7 9 16 3

8 9 15 3

8 9 15 3

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Attack) Wallbuster: Power Man and Iron Fist can use Super Strength. When given a move action, during the move they can automatically destroy up to 2 squares of blocking terrain or the wall adjoining two squares; they can continue their move, if any, after destroying the blocking terrain or the wall.

Flurry would be better on the figure than Duo as it would let the figure make 2 attacks at full damage as well as still be able to be carried.

Currently Duo figures are only good when they have Range, good damage numbers, and a lack of costly incompatible powers.

Tarnish

You can't charge and dou attack. You can't Running Shot and dou attack. You can't use RCE and dou attack. You can't use CCE and dou attack. You can't use Fortitude with dou figs. Almost all the sculpts are awsome and would love to use them but they are junk to play and not worth it. Way to many points for a fig that suppose to dou attack but can't do anything with the dou attack ability. Batman&Robin can't charge in and dou attack....huh?!(that NEVER happens in comics)

Cost vs output is usually the big argument against Duos. Most Duos have a relatively high cost (essentially 1+1=2, d'uh) but cannot perform up to that point class. This is largely because the Duo attack does not accurately represent 2 figs attacking as one. There are exceptions (eg. Devil Dinosaur & Moonboy, Cloak & Dagger) but in general the negatives of fielding a Duo (no carry, power incompatibility, FC limitations) outweigh their potential strengths.

I would like Wizkids to fix the Duo attack to be more like Hypersonic Speed option2:

Give this character a power action. It makes a close combat or range combat attack as a free action against a single target. Before damage from this attack is resolved this character may make another close combat or ranged combat attack as a free action against the same target modifying the target's defense value by +1. If either attack results in a critical result the action ends immediately. Apply the damage dealt from both attacks cumulatively.

For their points there are only a couple of duos even worth trying:

Power Man & Iron Fist
Cloak and Dagger
Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy
Thor and Loki (My personal opinion)

The rest are of questionable value. It has to do with the fact that you can't use duo figures with most powers. They need to make duo attack closer to multi-attack (note I said closer).

In a normal game most of your attacks will end up being non-duo attacks under the current rules (if you are playing a good player and team).

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Duo-figs, if you can't tear things up with Batman & Robin then I feel sorry for you. Some of them aren't so hot (Hawk & Dove, Nightwing & Starfire) but the rest are either okay or flat-out awesome.

Thor & Loki are amazing, Powerman & Iron Fist are great, Cap & Bucky can tear it up.

If most of your attacks aren't duo-attacks then you've been making some devastating miscalculations with these figures.

A few hints:
Don't be aftraid to push Batman & Robin, get into position, then dish out 5 damage on the next turn and gain outwit. If you strike a key figure this way (or two even) it can break your opponent's strategy.

Cap & Bucky don't need to be in close right away, use their range and wait for your moment. If you push to charge in close your defense skyrockets to 19 on their 2nd click.

Powerman & Iron Fist can charge sure, but wait for an opponent to move in then base them if they're out of your charge range, you can make your attacks on them the next turn since you're indomitable. This figure works great if you keep them back and wait to clean up after your ranged characters shoot them down a bit. Use their TA!

Thor & Loki, this figure should be self explanatory. Running shot in for 5 or 6, then duo-attack for 11 the following turn, rinse and repeat.

I like seeing people come out on both sides of this. Come to think about it, I have played Cap and Bucky (on an Invaders team) and Batman and Robin on a Bat Ally/ Gotham City team. Both figures performed well and Batman and Robin won me a Starro Attacks tournament (IIRC).

I like Duos, and the ability.

Cloak and Dagger are my favorite to pull out and I <3 Devil Dinosaur and Moonboy.

I think they are getting better with each set and the ones people don't like are just bad figs, duo ability or not.


Also...I think some people are just hatin' for tha sake of hatin'.

This is the truest statement I have read today. I often wonder how many of the people who complain about certain figures have actually played said figures. I would guess very few.

I have played duo figures, and I have seen them do really well. I for one do not think there is anything wrong with the mechanic nor do I find them over cost for what they can do.

I just don't like when characters that can and should run independently from one another are lumped onto the same dial. Though there are some with more bystandery characters that would be pogs otherwise, such as Gert or Will Magnus. And I'd rather them have a sculpt on a duo base than be reduced to a pog.

Duos bueno:

Gert and Old Lace
Thor's Mighty Chariot
Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy
Trickster and Pied Piper
Will Magnus and Platinum
Big Barda & Mr. Miracle


Duos mal:

Thor and Loki
Cloak and Dagger
Power Man and Iron Fist
Cap and Bucky
Jack and Ten
Hawk and Dove
Lead and Tin
King and Queen
Nightwing and Starfire
World's Finest
Batman and Robin

World's Finest has got to be the biggest example of a Duo flop, methinks. Thor and Loki are a good 150+ points cheaper, and I bet they could tear 'em a new one. Especially if they've got Thunderbolts (shudder). Hypersonic Speed is great and all, but man, World's Finest always just seems like a big ole, awkward damage sponge. Sigh.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do to liven the mechanic up for Brave and the Bold. It'll be neat to see the combinations they come up with, especially if they do end up tweaking the rules for them a bit (which I'm betting on).

As for character selection, boy, Thor and Loki seemed like it was really out of left field. But remember that one chap who won a tournament and got to pick a figure to be in an upcoming Heroclix set? If I recall correctly, his pick was "Nightcrawler and Mystique". Ugh. I love me some Nightcrawler, but for the life of me, I can't think of a single time I've seen them fight side by side. What a waste of a pick! Heck, I'd even rather have a "Typeface and Spellcheck" (brownie points if you get that referance). I wonder if it will ever happen...

IMO duo figures don't make sense. Yes comic characters work in pairs but since when where they joined at the hip or run a 3 legged race continually occupying the same space. Personally I think the mechanic is silly and just a marketing gimmick. If you want 2 characters to work together then move 2 standard figures together and introduce a trait, SP or a feat to emphasize a duo ability.

My problem with them is point for point, I'd rather run the individual version of characters that have both duos and individuals.

The only serious problem is the dial design. Having multiple duo figures that have 2 or less damage on their dial limits the usefulness. I cannot understand why they keep being designed that way.