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Well, I am looking forward to running the Dr. Manhattan scenario for my players on Sunday, but I do have one nagging question that I believe I already have the answer to. Can a Duo attack hit both times before taking a single retaliation from the scenario rules or would it be after each individual attack of the Duo Attack? When I first thought about it I was thinking that it would be both, but upon closer reading of the rules and ability I think Dr. Manhattan would get to attack each time he was hit by the duo attack.
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Scenario rules:
Dr. Manhattan attacks only when he takes damage. Immediately after a power, ranged attack, or close combat action is resolved from which Dr. Manhattan takes damage, Dr. Manhattan takes an action.
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Duo Attack:
Give this character a power action to make a duo attack. This character has for this action. It makes a ranged or close combat attack as a free action. After the attack resolves, it may make an additional close or ranged combat attack as a free action with its damage value modified by -1 to a minimum of 1. If this character is defeated or loses Duo Attack as a result of the first attack, the second attack is not made.
The opening clause for the Scenario rules is what leads me to believe that if Dr. Manhattan is attacked by a Duo attack that he would retaliate on each attack. Now I could be wrong here as the next line does state that immediately after the power action is resolved is when that retaliation is performed. It’s been a long time sense I’ve played in a colossal scenario that I think I am making the right call on this. But I do have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind saying that I might be off. Any help would be great for my players so that I don’t give them a bad call.
i don't know the answer to that, but different question came up when we played this Saturday. Does Invisible Woman's power allow her to escape retribution of Dr. M's counter attack? he doesn't ignore stealth, etc, so would he ignore IW? she has some power saying she can't be targetted for a ranged attacks or something.
Give us the Flying Dutchman's Ghost.
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- Thanks Larry
Well, I am looking forward to running the Dr. Manhattan scenario for my players on Sunday, but I do have one nagging question that I believe I already have the answer to. Can a Duo attack hit both times before taking a single retaliation from the scenario rules or would it be after each individual attack of the Duo Attack? When I first thought about it I was thinking that it would be both, but upon closer reading of the rules and ability I think Dr. Manhattan would get to attack each time he was hit by the duo attack.
The opening clause for the Scenario rules is what leads me to believe that if Dr. Manhattan is attacked by a Duo attack that he would retaliate on each attack. Now I could be wrong here as the next line does state that immediately after the power action is resolved is when that retaliation is performed. It’s been a long time sense I’ve played in a colossal scenario that I think I am making the right call on this. But I do have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind saying that I might be off. Any help would be great for my players so that I don’t give them a bad call.
Respectfully,
Ian “Hpred” Duncan
I already brought this up to Norm for an answer.
I read it that you could get both attacks off before the good doctor retaliates, but the wording is wonky enough that I could see it being the other way. (That's not to mention that the older colossals retaliated after the attack, not the action.)
i don't know the answer to that, but different question came up when we played this Saturday. Does Invisible Woman's power allow her to escape retribution of Dr. M's counter attack? he doesn't ignore stealth, etc, so would he ignore IW? she has some power saying she can't be targetted for a ranged attacks or something.
Accually tyroman, the big Doc does ignore stealth.
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Powers & Abilities (Scenario):
Dr. Manhattan ignores the Exploit Weakness, Force Blast, Incapacitate, Mind Control, Poison, Penetrating/Psychic Blast, Shape Change, and Stealth powers of opposing characters. As wells as any game effects that duplicate the effects of those powers.
i don't know the answer to that, but different question came up when we played this Saturday. Does Invisible Woman's power allow her to escape retribution of Dr. M's counter attack? he doesn't ignore stealth, etc, so would he ignore IW? she has some power saying she can't be targetted for a ranged attacks or something.
My imput doesn't matter, but here we go anyway: Doc Man says when an action resolves. Duo is a power action that grants other actions. They are all within the Duo action however and its that power action your waiting for to resolve before Doc Man can act. So I'd say you get both attacks from Duo just like you would get both attacks from Flurry. Again, thats just me and it means nothing, but there ya go anyway :>
Sigh... I wish I had something clever or witty to put here...
duo attack is a power action that grants ranged attacks or close combat attacks. Doc retaliates after a power action, ranged attack, or cc attack. If you use ranged attack option of duo attack, I would think Doc get retaliation after each attack does damage. If you use close combat attacks, I think Doc would not be able to retaliate until both attacks resolve as they are not close combat actions.
Using the quotes above, it sounds like the Doc would retaliate at the end of the Duo Attack. He retaliates to the resolution of a power, ranged combat, or close combat action (not attack). The Duo Attack is a power action granting two free attacks. That said, I know the official ruling could go either way...
Scenario rules:
Dr. Manhattan attacks only when he takes damage. Immediately after a power, ranged attack, or close combat action is resolved from which Dr. Manhattan takes damage, Dr. Manhattan takes an action.
I based my answer on this quote from his scenario's rules.
i don't know the answer to that, but different question came up when we played this Saturday. Does Invisible Woman's power allow her to escape retribution of Dr. M's counter attack? he doesn't ignore stealth, etc, so would he ignore IW? she has some power saying she can't be targetted for a ranged attacks or something.
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
He would not ignore her power.
In other words, Susan Richards could escape retribution from Dr. Manhattan. (See hpred regarding Stealth.)
Quote : Originally Posted by razzed1
duo attack is a power action that grants ranged attacks or close combat attacks. Doc retaliates after a power action, ranged attack, or cc attack. If you use ranged attack option of duo attack, I would think Doc get retaliation after each attack does damage. If you use close combat attacks, I think Doc would not be able to retaliate until both attacks resolve as they are not close combat actions.
Quote : Originally Posted by razzed1
I based my answer on this quote from his scenario's rules.
The quote was actually incorrect.
From the Dr. Manhattan Scenario Rules:
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Dr. Manhattan attacks only when he takes damage. Immediately after a power, ranged combat, or close combat action is resolved from which Dr. Manhattan takes damage, Dr. Manhattan takes an action.
As written, the scenario requires actions, not attacks.
ok, then I will now flip flop and change my answer to....
yes, doc manhattan will retaliate after each attack made by teh duo figure in question.
I would have thought you'd go the other way. Dr. Manhattan retaliates immediately after a power, ranged combat, or close combat action is resolved. Like you said earlier, Duo Attack is a power action that allows a close combat attack or a ranged combat attack as a free action (not power action, ranged combat action, or close combat action). It then allows another close combat attack or ranged combat attack as a free action (again, not a power action, ranged combat action, or close combat action.) Then the power action resolves. As written, this would seem to be when Dr. Manhattan would attack since it is the first time that a power, ranged combat, or close combat action has resolved. So as written, Dr. Manhattan should only retaliate once after the entire Duo Attack resolves.
I played a scenario game with my group a few weeks back, and the way it was worded to me, it only specifies actions, and not attacks for retaliation ("Immediately after a power, ranged combat, or close combat action is resolved from which Dr. Manhattan takes damage, Dr. Manhattan takes an action.")
The KEY difference to me for that in comparison to past colossals, such as the Spectre, is Dr. Manhattan specifies Power, Close or Ranged Combat Actions, versus other colossals specifying ANY action, which would include free actions such as Poison, or the Free Actions that grant Close Combat Attacks in powers such as Flurry or Hypersonic Speed ("After the action that dealt The Spectre damage
resolves, The Spectre immediately takes an action")
So I ruled against the Dr. that way, but then he proceeded to get the tar beaten out of him by my group. Granted, there was a large point handicap going against Manhattan, but in past colossal games there have been handicaps and it was still a close game. This one was not... I'd imagine it'd have been much closer if he was able to retaliate after Free Actions as well.