Playing a game this weekend it came up again as it has many times it the past. I based a bunch of his figures and didn't outwit anything because I didn't need to but then went I outwitted a damage reducer I was told no you can't do that you would have had to have outwitted toughness on the last turn. The judge came and agreed that I would have had to have outwitted toughness on the last turn so it wouldn't do damage and said that that was always the way it had been (fustrating because we are friends and we play all the time and I've used outwit/ poison plenty of times before on him and he remembers none of that and never said anything when I had). Everyone in the store agreed that that was the way it was and that was the way it always was. We continued the game using the judge's call but after the game I tried using page 7 of the rule book to prove I was right but everyone just said it proved they were right. I used the store computer to try the website and then HCrealms. With HCrealms everything I showed them was either too old (the earliest post on the subject was October 22nd I think.) or it wasn't by a moderator so it was "just a bunch of people who didn't know anything".

Can I please have an official and current ruling please? It would be much appreciated.

Page 7 as I read it means effects of powers like outwit, perplex and barrier would end before any other action that is done at the start of the turn so a power outwitted would return before you can use "at the beginning of the turn" powers like poison. Free action powers like outwit can be done "at the beginning of the turn" as well and since it never says in what order since it is your turn you can choose the order of each effect IE Outwit and then use poison.

It sucks thinking you know something and then taking a hit because you can't prove you are right or you are told that was probably changed. It means one event might be different than another event. Back when I started playing in tournaments I researched poison outwit before a game but the same thing happened. Deja vu. Then they had the FAQ which addressed the question.

If I am wrong I would also appreciate knowing. Sometimes wording change. I would also appreciate knowing that I was right that it used to be the way I descibed. It feels a bit like the twilight zone being so sure of something and being told it never was by everyone. Thank you in advance.

I get so sick of people saying they know the game when they cannot grasp the concept of "until the beginning of your turn" and "at the beginning of your turn"

Outwit counters the power until the beginning of your turn

Your turn has not started, there is a kind of null space where powers return, placed tokens disappear then your turn begins

At this point, you can take actions that do not assign tokens or actions specifically stated as occuring at the beginning of your turn

The way it works is this
Previously outwitted powers return
Your turn starts
You can, in any order, outwit and/or poison

Not being insane, you can outwit the toughness and then poison

You were right, they were wrong. Outwit lasts until the beginning of your next turn, so on your turn, any previous Outwit would end before you declared any actions, then at the beginning of your turn you could have first Outwitted a damage reducer as a free action, then used Poison as a free action.

thank you all so far. I am glad I am not insane. I tried to explain it like a card game that uses phases. "until the beginning of your turn" is the first phase where effects end that state that is when they end and then the "at the beginning of your turn" where powers that state that is when they are used are used and when anytime during your turn free actions are used in any order. They your turn starts and then the final phase is clearing action tokens off your figures that cleared.

I still need someone "official" to show the judge and players and they will not except anything else.

Try this thread. Harpua answered a similar question with pretty much the same response we gave you.

That's the way I explained it to my venue when the same issue came up. Clix doesn't say it has phases, but definitely does have them.

I just taught a friend this little trick. As I was reading this thread, a little part of me was worried because I was afraid that the trick was outdated and no longer viable since little nuances of the game seem to be changing almost constantly. I'm glad to see that it still works. (Even if that means my friend has been kicking my butt with the outwit/poison trick lately.)

Just b/c any number of players and/or judges agree on something doesn't make them right. Always be packing the rules with you. Page 7 of the 2011 Rule Book:

You might notice the OP did have that handy...

Bottom line is, the Judge was wrong. BUT at the same time, barring anything, if he makes the ruling, that is the ruling until otherwise corrected. I hope the judge is man enough to come and check the ruling and get it correct. If he doesn't, then he's probably a jerk that won't admit he's wrong.

That is probably the biggest take away you should have with this situation. The judge's ruling is the final word on things or at least it is for the time being. I've had far too many times where I was right about something and will fight for my answer up to a point, but if the judge is adamant about THEIR ruling, stop arguing. The Judge is "Right."

You were right for the reasons you posted.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! all of you were very helpful. MBSoner the link to the extra thread helps a lot too! He said if I got confirmation from Harpua he would exept it so I think will be successful in convincing him. Thank you.

Also the most mature and in the spirit keeping the game fun if you can't convince your opponent or judge in a timely manner that what you think is right you should just move on and find it in the rule book later. The same goes for friendly games. A dice roll or coin flip to decide a confusion on a rule( like it says in the rule book) is the best way to decide a friendly game. Taking 5 or more minutes just to search through a book isn't that much fun.

The judge's job is to make the rule calls so he take's the place of the dice or coin flip.