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Let me preface this question by saying I don't think this should work, but by the letter of the rules I can't see why it doesn't work. Can Master Mold invoke Sentinel Assembly-Line via Multiattack?
Quote : Originally Posted by Multiattack from the 2011 PAC
MULTIATTACK Once per turn, give this character a power action. It can be given any two actions as free actions. Resolve the first free action before giving it the second. Modify this character’s damage value by -1 to a minimum of 1. This ability can’t be countered.
The underlined line sentence says that they could be given "any two actions as free actions" but a double power action is technically only 1 action:
Quote : Originally Posted by Double Power Action from the 2011 Rulebook
Double Power Actions. A double power action is a special type of power action; it is also an action given to a character that allows it to use a game effect
requiring a double power action. Unlike a power action, a double power action results in the character being assigned two action tokens instead of one (dealing pushing damage). A character cannot be given a double power action to activate game effects that only require a power action.
Quote : Originally Posted by Master Mold's character card
Sentinel Assembly-Line Give Master Mold a double power action, turn the Factory Dial 2 clicks and use the Sentinel Manufacturer ability as a free action.
As I said, I don't think this should work, but by the rules, I can't see where it wouldn't.
Trades: WITH WoL H/W, also looking for Mandarin Rings, DoFP Rares & Nimrod
Al's Clix Cave: blog
Quote : Originally Posted by sol
Personally, I think you've spent way too much time thinking about this...
I agree that this violates the spirit. I'll be watching for clarification here.
Honestly it seems like something that should have been caught in playtesting, and it's possible that something is reworded for the 2012 PAC and/or Rulebook. However, it also seems it'll be pretty broken until then.
Quote : Originally Posted by normalview
It works just fine. Why wouldnt it? What "violation", of the spirit or otherwise, is happening?
This is assuming the leaked preview is accurate, of course.
Wait, an advanced review on Figures.com counts as a leak now? It looks pretty official with them having pictures of the physical product as well as WizKids style mock-ups for the cards and dials.
And the violation is that the figure would only get 1 token for a double power action, and be able to take another action as well. That's a whole lot of stuff going on.
Trades: WITH WoL H/W, also looking for Mandarin Rings, DoFP Rares & Nimrod
Al's Clix Cave: blog
Quote : Originally Posted by sol
Personally, I think you've spent way too much time thinking about this...
Honestly it seems like something that should have been caught in playtesting, and it's possible that something is reworded for the 2012 PAC and/or Rulebook. However, it also seems it'll be pretty broken until then.
How is it broken, though? Sure, he could possibly crank through his Factory dial more quickly with Multiattack... but he is still going to be limited to a 300 point max. What does it really matter if he brings in one 150 points character this turn and another 150 point character next turn, or just brings in both this turn?
I remember being told at one point that the two free actions from Multiattack had been changed so that both actions had to be attack actions. Was this ever the case? Was it changed back?
I'd look it up in the PG but I can't access it at work.
Originally posted by JBShip628: Cosmic Spider-Man's LoF is NEVER blocked. See that Batman 4 tables down. Yeah, Cosmic Spidey can shoot at him.
I remember being told at one point that the two free actions from Multiattack had been changed so that both actions had to be attack actions. Was this ever the case? Was it changed back?
I'd look it up in the PG but I can't access it at work.
It definitely used to be listed that way. Currently it is not.
Trades: WITH WoL H/W, also looking for Mandarin Rings, DoFP Rares & Nimrod
Al's Clix Cave: blog
Quote : Originally Posted by sol
Personally, I think you've spent way too much time thinking about this...
I remember being told at one point that the two free actions from Multiattack had been changed so that both actions had to be attack actions. Was this ever the case? Was it changed back?
I'd look it up in the PG but I can't access it at work.
They used to have to be attacks. That was changed relatively recently to the current wording.
Right now, the only thing you can't do with Multiattack is activate Capture (if the character can even use Capture... many can't).
I remember being told at one point that the two free actions from Multiattack had been changed so that both actions had to be attack actions. Was this ever the case? Was it changed back?
I'd look it up in the PG but I can't access it at work.
It used to be, but it was indeed changed with the 2011 Rule Book.
How is it broken, though? Sure, he could possibly crank through his Factory dial more quickly with Multiattack... but he is still going to be limited to a 300 point max. What does it really matter if he brings in one 150 points character this turn and another 150 point character next turn, or just brings in both this turn?
Like the timer mechanic (on the Cap Chases), it just seems to be a whole lot of work/wording put into a mechanic, that will largely be skipped over because of poor attention to interactions between rules.
Trades: WITH WoL H/W, also looking for Mandarin Rings, DoFP Rares & Nimrod
Al's Clix Cave: blog
Quote : Originally Posted by sol
Personally, I think you've spent way too much time thinking about this...
How is it broken, though? Sure, he could possibly crank through his Factory dial more quickly with Multiattack... but he is still going to be limited to a 300 point max. What does it really matter if he brings in one 150 points character this turn and another 150 point character next turn, or just brings in both this turn?
We won't know if something is broken until it comes into play. But it seems that using Multi-Attack to perform two actions, and one of those is an action that should place two action tokens, is at least bypassing a cost of using the double power action SP. The issue to me isn't the "300pt/ turn cap" but rather the issue of being able to place 300 pt characters (or 2 150pt figs) in 2 consecutive turns.
But if this works within the rules, that is great. Thanks for bringing your ruling on this, Normalview.
But...Nightcrawler really has been my favorite character for years.
Like the timer mechanic (on the Cap Chases), it just seems to be a whole lot of work/wording put into a mechanic, that will largely be skipped over because of poor attention to interactions between rules.
I fail to see how, though. Assuming "worst" case scenario (and spoiler accuracy):
Turn 1
Power action to use Multiattack:
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 60 point or less character.
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 75 point or less character.
Multiattack resolves with 135 or less new characters on the map.
Turn 2 (and assuming no Sentinels were KO'd during the opposing player's turn)
Power action to use Multiattack:
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 100 point or less character.
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 150 point or less character.
Multiattack resolves with 385 or less new characters on the map.
Now the Mastermold has to clear next turn (unless he wants to use Colossal Stamina and take unavoidable damage) *AND* he has hit the 300 point cap and can't use any more Factory related abilities for awhile.
Last edited by normalview; 01/30/2012 at 17:38..
Reason: I can't add apparently.
I fail to see how, though. Assuming "worst" case scenario (and spoiler accuracy):
Turn 1
Power action to use Multiattack:
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 60 point or less character.
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 75 point or less character.
Multiattack resolves with 135 or less new characters on the map.
Turn 2 (and assuming no Sentinels were KO'd during the opposing player's turn)
Power action to use Multiattack:
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 100 point or less character.
- Free double power action to use Sentinel Assembly-Line turns the Factory dial twice and lets him spit out a 150 point or less character.
Multiattack resolves with 285 or less new characters on the map.
Now the Mastermold has to clear next turn (unless he wants to use Colossal Stamina and take unavoidable damage) *AND* he still has less than 300 points extra on the map.
Maybe my math is a little wonky, but that looks like 385 points in figures to me.
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