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Just a quick question, wanna see if you guys know what the ruling on this is.
If you have two targets, or two lightning bolts, can you shoot out two walls of blocking terrain in the same action? (I hope I worded that right, it feels funny.)
The reason why I ask is because I was playing a game today, and my friend wanted to do it, but then decided not to, thinking that it was probably against the rules. I don't see why he couldn't, but I wanna know what you guys think.
The lets you target two opposing figures. The wall is not an opposing figure so you can't use the second bolt.
I wish I had the time to quote it from the rulebook. When I get a chance, I'll add it.
You probably won't find such a rule in the book.
MULTIPLE RANGED COMBAT TARGETS
.... The number of lightning bolts is the maximum number of different targets the character can target with a single ranged combat attack unless a game effect indicates otherwise (for example, by indicating “targets all characters”).
Through the rest of the section it only ever says "target". It doesn't restrict it to only target characters.
.... The number of lightning bolts is the maximum number of different targets the character can target with a single ranged combat attack unless a game effect indicates otherwise (for example, by indicating “targets all characters”).
Through the rest of the section it only ever says "target". It doesn't restrict it to only target characters.
From the glossary:
target:
Quote
The character or characters against which an attack is being made or a power is being used.
Terrain isn't a "target". A "target" is only a character.
Visible Dials and Pushing Damage need to be optional. This is the way.
Terrain isn't a "target". A "target" is only a character.
But if we're going to use the glossary definitions:
Quote
Ranged Combat Attack: An attack that requires an unblocked line of fire to a target up to the character’s range value away in squares.
So if we assume that is rules text then you can't ever make any ranged attack against terrain because it requires a target and terrain is never a target. In fact, due to this definition
Quote
Attack: Part of an action that includes an attack roll to determine whether one character hits another
you can't make attacks against terrain at all because attacks are always against characters.
So I don't think we can rely on the definition you're quoting as excluding terrain from being a target. We have in fact been cautioned repeatedly not to assume the glossary definition of the term is inclusive of every way the term can be used.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
But if we're going to use the glossary definitions:
So if we assume that is rules text then you can't ever make any ranged attack against terrain because it requires a target and terrain is never a target. In fact, due to this definition
you can't make attacks against terrain at all because attacks are always against characters.
So I don't think we can rely on the definition you're quoting as excluding terrain from being a target. We have in fact been cautioned repeatedly not to assume the glossary definition of the term is inclusive of every way the term can be used.
If you only use the glossary you'd be right you can't destroy terrain.
That's probably why on page 13 they say you CAN destroy Blocking Terrain and Walls.
Quote
DESTROYING BLOCKING TERRAIN
A square of blocking terrain can be destroyed by a
single attack that deals at least 3 damage. When
a character attacks blocking terrain, the attack
automatically succeeds. A close combat attack
can be used to destroy a square of blocking terrain
adjacent to the attacker. A ranged combat attack
can be used to destroy a square of blocking terrain
by drawing a line of fire to the center of the square of
blocking terrain; the line of fire is not blocked by the
target square in this instance.
Quote
DESTROYING WALLS.
A close combat attack can be used to destroy a
wall segment along the edge of the square the
character occupies. A ranged combat attack can
be used to destroy a wall segment but only if a
single line of fire can be drawn to the center of the
square on the other side of the wall segment that
also crosses the other square along the same edge
as the wall segment. The squares on each side of
the wall must be within the attacking character’s
range as shown in Figure 11; in this case, the line
of fire is not blocked by the chosen wall segment
or a character occupying the targeted square. All
other requirements for destroying a wall are the
same as those for destroying blocking terrain.
The word "target" shows up exactly once in this description and only to clarify a square as the one chosen. Blocking Terrain is never referred to as a "target".
That is the way I've been reading it for as long as I can recall.
In fact, I don't recall there ever being a time you could destroy two separate sections of walls or blocking terrain only using what is in the rulebook. (Various SP's, objects, Feats, etc might allow it)
Visible Dials and Pushing Damage need to be optional. This is the way.
DESTROYING BLOCKING TERRAIN
A square of blocking terrain can be destroyed by a
single attack that deals at least 3 damage. When
a character attacks blocking terrain, the attack
automatically succeeds. A close combat attack
can be used to destroy a square of blocking terrain
adjacent to the attacker. A ranged combat attack
can be used to destroy a square of blocking terrain
by drawing a line of fire to the center of the square of
blocking terrain; the line of fire is not blocked by the
target square in this instance.
DESTROYING WALLS.
A close combat attack can be used to destroy a
wall segment along the edge of the square the
character occupies. A ranged combat attack can
be used to destroy a wall segment but only if a
single line of fire can be drawn to the center of the
square on the other side of the wall segment that
also crosses the other square along the same edge
as the wall segment. The squares on each side of
the wall must be within the attacking character’s
range as shown in Figure 11; in this case, the line
of fire is not blocked by the chosen wall segment
or a character occupying the targeted square. All
other requirements for destroying a wall are the
same as those for destroying blocking terrain.
When a wall is destroyed, place debris
markers in those clear terrain squares
adjacent to both sides of the destroyed wall,
as shown in Figure 12, to represent the debris
remaining after the wall’s destruction.
The word "target" shows up exactly once in this description and only to clarify a square as the one chosen. Blocking Terrain is never referred to as a "target".
Terrain isn't a "target". A "target" is only a character.
You can't use the glossary to actually define what a target is. The beginning of the glossary states it is only a reference for a SUMMARY of game terms.
The terrain gets targeted. If you have multiple , you can target multiple squares of blocking terrain.
From page 12: "No game effect can target or attack a character in addition to a piece of terrain or object with the same attack, even if they occupy the same square." Ranged combat attacks target. If you can attack blocking terrain with a ranged combat attack, it targets the blocking terrain.
DESTROYING BLOCKING TERRAIN
A square of blocking terrain can be destroyed by a
single attack that deals at least 3 damage. When
a character attacks blocking terrain, the attack
automatically succeeds. A close combat attack
can be used to destroy a square of blocking terrain
adjacent to the attacker. A ranged combat attack
can be used to destroy a square of blocking terrain by drawing a line of fire to the center of the square of
blocking terrain; the line of fire is not blocked by the
target square in this instance.
PG:
- Any game effect that has a line of fire drawn to it is considered a target.