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According to the current wisdom on Ulik's Defensive power,
"STRONGEST OF ALL ROCK TROLLS: Damage dealt to Ulik is reduced to 1. This power cannot be countered or ignored."
Psychic Blast cuts through this like a hot knife through butter because apparently Psychic Blast in incapable of "Ignoring" things.
Instead Psychic Blast cuts through things like toughness, invulnerability and impervious not because it "ignores" them, but rather, because it "can't be reduced".
"Penetrating damage is damage dealt that can’t be reduced (such as by the Toughness power), but can be evaded, ignored, increased, or transferred to another character."
I for one think that this ruling with regards to Ulik's power is total bull crap. I think that Psychic blast DOES ignore toughness, invulnerability, impervious. They all clearly state that they reduce damage dealt. So in my mind ANY power that deals them damage with out being reduced must by definition ignore them.
"Ignores: is not affected by or treats the stated property or effect as if it didn't exist or happen."
But the general consensus is that since Psychic Blast is incapable of ignoring powers that Ulik is totally hosed by Psychic Blast.
This also means that any power that claims that its ability to reduce damage dealt "cannot be ignored" is also totally hosed by PB.
But when a character attacks the new Brainiac with 3 damage and PB the conventional wisdom seems to be that he does NOT take 3 damage and that the PB damage, which CANNOT BE REDUCED is somehow reduced.
"I'll Show You Impervious: Brainiac can use Impervious. When turning the dial, if this click is revealed due to damage taken from an opponent's attack, stop turning the dial. This power cannot be countered or ignored."
BUT the ONLY reason why people seem to think that his power prevents characters with PB from dealing all of their damage value is that this power "cannot be countered or ignored" but as we know PB does not give a rats ### who can and cannot be ignored. It ignores who ever the hell it wants to because it "can't be reduced".
So it seems like the 3 damage + PB deals 3 clicks to the new Brainiac. Either that or Ulik's ability to "ignore" abilities that "ignore" damage reduction will allow him to "ignore" PB.
BUT the ONLY reason why people seem to think that his power prevents characters with PB from dealing all of their damage value is that this power "cannot be countered or ignored" but as we know PB does not give a rats ### who can and cannot be ignored. It ignores who ever the hell it wants to because it "can't be reduced".
This assumption is incorrect. Psychic Blast against Brainiac technically does cut right through his Impervious; the reason he wouldn't take more than 1 click is if the subsequent click on his dial has "I'll Show You Impervious" showing, in which case you'd immediately stop turning regardless of whether or not you're dealing penetrating damage because Brainiac's power tells you to.
You're also adding "ignores" to Psychic Blast where it doesn't belong. PB doesn't ignore anything; if you have Impervious you could still roll the d6, it just wouldn't do anything because the effect of Psychic Blast (damage cannot be reduced) trumps the effect of Impervious (reduces damage). If you've got a special power that triggers on a successful Impervious roll (Maelstrom) then you could still roll the d6 and get it to trigger, even if the damage can't be reduced. If Psychic Blast ignored, then you would not be able to roll that d6 and trigger the special power (as with Pulse Wave).
"I'll Show You Impervious: Brainiac can use Impervious. When turning the dial, if this click is revealed due to damage taken from an opponent's attack, stop turning the dial. This power cannot be countered or ignored."
The bolded is why P/PB doesn't deal it's full damage, if said damage is more than one. It penetrates his defenses for one click, then they go back up, so to speak.
This works the same as the LIVE! powers on the White Lanterns. Just imagine that for three clicks stacked with non ignorable/non counterable impervious. And the ignoring, that just gets around Pulse Wave damage.
"showing, in which case you'd immediately stop turning regardless of whether or not you're dealing penetrating damage because Brainiac's power tells you to."
But Ulik's power tells you that you can never deal him more than one damage no matter what ever.
AND it says that it CANNOT be ignored.
BUT since PB does not ignore things, it can circumvent? Ulik's defense.
So if PB damage cannot be reduced, then how does a character with 3 damage and PB deal 1 damage to brainiac?
How does a thing that cannot be reduced get reduced?
PB/P does indeed go through Brainiac's Impervious like it's nothing but it's the "When turning the dial, if this click is revealed due to damage taken from an opponent's attack, stop turning the dial. This power cannot be countered or ignored." that's the real kicker.
That's why he's showing YOU how to use Impervious
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Because 3 clicks of damage dealt is not reduced to 1 click of damage dealt. 1 damage is taken, and then his dial stops turning. It wasn't reduced, you were simply prohibited from counting above 1, effectively. You are trying to combine the English definition with the Heroclix game term "ignore", which is causing your confusion. In your defense, I do feel Ulik should be errata'd to read the same as the Blob's or Hollywood's defense power.
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
"showing, in which case you'd immediately stop turning regardless of whether or not you're dealing penetrating damage because Brainiac's power tells you to."
But Ulik's power tells you that you can never deal him more than one damage no matter what ever.
AND it says that it CANNOT be ignored.
BUT since PB does not ignore things, it can circumvent? Ulik's defense.
So if PB damage cannot be reduced, then how does a character with 3 damage and PB deal 1 damage to brainiac?
How does a thing that cannot be reduced get reduced?
Ulik's power tells you that you reduce damage dealt to him to 1, therefore any power that cannot be reduced (Exploit Weakness, Psychic Blast) will be unaffected by said reduction.
Compare him with GSX Blob, who ignores all but 1 damage, in which case Exploit and Psychic Blast can't do diddly.
The part of Ulik's power that says it "cannot be countered or ignored" prevents him from being affected by Outwit (which counters) and Pulse Wave (which ignores).
How's someone with just 22 post think he knows better?
It can at times be MUCH easier to evaluate the credentials of a messenger than the validity of a message.
But of course the credentials of a messenger are incapable of having any barring on the validity of any message.
I am still curious.
Brainiacs Defense says to stop turning the dial. But if you stop a PB player from dealing their full damage with this stopping of the turning have you not by definition of the word reduced, reduced the PBers damage?
"showing, in which case you'd immediately stop turning regardless of whether or not you're dealing penetrating damage because Brainiac's power tells you to."
But Ulik's power tells you that you can never deal him more than one damage no matter what ever.
AND it says that it CANNOT be ignored.
BUT since PB does not ignore things, it can circumvent? Ulik's defense.
So if PB damage cannot be reduced, then how does a character with 3 damage and PB deal 1 damage to brainiac?
How does a thing that cannot be reduced get reduced?
Ulik's power says that damage dealt to him is REDUCED to one.
Psychic blast cannot be REDUCED. It goes through.
Pulse Wave IGNORES.
Ulik's power says that it cannot be countered or IGNORED. It does not.
Brainiac's power cannot be countered or IGNORED. It can be shot through with Psychic Blast, but when it shows up the next click, the dial stops.
Here's an example:
"Brainiac can use impervious": this would mean when attacked, he will use impervious, which can be circumvented (NOT ignored, just rendered almost useless) by penetrating/psychic blast.
"This power cannot be countered or ignored": this would mean pulse wave, outwit, and powers that mimic these two will not effect this power. Penetrating/psychic blast can still circumvent this.
"When turning the dial, if this click is revealed due to damage taken from an opponent's attack, stop turning the dial": this circumvents penetrating/psychic blast. Penatrating damage cannot be reduced, but this power does not reduce, it just stops you from turning the dial further. It does not effect damage dealt in any way, just how far the dial turns.
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
Here's an example:
"Brainiac can use impervious": this would mean when attacked, he will use impervious, which can be circumvented (NOT ignored, just rendered almost useless) by penetrating/psychic blast.
"This power cannot be countered or ignored": this would mean pulse wave, outwit, and powers that mimic these two will not effect this power. Penetrating/psychic blast can still circumvent this.
"When turning the dial, if this click is revealed due to damage taken from an opponent's attack, stop turning the dial": this circumvents penetrating/psychic blast. Penatrating damage cannot be reduced, but this power does not reduce, it just stops you from turning the dial further. It does not effect damage dealt in any way, just how far the dial turns.
^^^^^^
This.
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